Home » A Soldiers Story » Defense Cover-Up Management Agency (DCMA) – Part 2

Defense Cover-Up Management Agency (DCMA) – Part 2

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While drafting a new subcontract I suggested we revise the Scope of Work and make the requirements a little more stringent. I emailed William Granger, KBR’s Water Quality Manager with my suggestions and he didn’t even respond to my emails. I was surprised by his lack of response and even more surprised to learn the Green Zone water issues was not an isolated incident. In March 2005 Ben Carter had filed an incident report regarding contaminated water at Camp Junction City – Ar Ramadi, Iraq. One minor change was eventually made to the Scope of Work and that was to ensure trucks were clearly marked as Water trucks or Sewer trucks and not both.

There was a DoD Inspector General  complaint filed and a DoD Inspector General Water Audit performed in 2008. It’s hard to say if that had in impact on KBR canceling the 15 original subcontracts and consolidated the hauling of water to 3 subcontracts with new subcontractors. KBR also purchase 9 new water trucks and eventually self-performed the hauling of water in the Green Zone and only then was KBR even remotely in compliance with the Statement of  Procedure  Water Operations  SOP-01M.

It was disturbing to me that our soldiers….Army, Marines, US Air Force and Navy and not mention the thousands of civilians and coalition forces would come in off patrol or from work and have to take a shower in sewer water. It was very common for people to be sick and attribute it to the water, but they didn’t know how dangerous it really was.

USAF Major Hammonds informed he had written up my Joint Services Commendation Medal Award and even after all our disagreements COL McQuain wrote a glowing Letter of Input. And yet,  I still have not received my Medal. Coincidence? I don’t think so.

Medal or no medal, I did what I felt was right and just. I stand by my decisions and know for fact my unwavering commitment to the safety of our soldiers and civilians including KBR’s own employees made a dangerous war zone a little safer. That in itself is its own reward.

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  1. Comment by Keven Barnes:

    “worms were moving in the toilet bowl”
    Ben Carter-KBR to co-workers at KBR

    DCMA knew of these types of things and covered them up instead of writing CARs.

    From: Ben Carter
    Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 10:40 AM
    To: Suzanne Raku-Williams; Warren Smith
    Cc: Lisa Waterman; Walter Meyers
    Subject: Incident report from 23-March-2005 Water contamination
    On Wednesday morning I was notified by our Labor Foreman #1 of suspected micro-organisms in his water.
    Electric#1 had done a visual inspection and reported to me that he also had seen Asmall worms@ moving in the toilet
    bowl. I went to inspect this myself and saw what I believe were mosquito larvae. This is by no means to be considered
    to be a fact. I then immediately tested the cold water from the lav sink in Labor #1=s hooch for free chlorine. There
    was none detected. It had been my understanding that this water was non-potable but was chlorinated.

  2. Comment by JHowds:

    BRAVO KEVEN! What we need is for every QAR to be as thorough as Keven Barnes was. Why the USG, KBR, and so many other contractors are allowed to ignore the SOPs is beyond me. Potable water people! Very little is more important than that. Wake up USG!

    • Comment by Keven Barnes:

      Thanks JHowds, I had KBR managers actually call into our State Department Liaison and ask “Who is DCMA and do we have to listen to them.” They were so oblivious to the SOPs that they had no idea that they had a set of standards to abide by. DCMA was the last check-and-balance for LOGCAP life support services and still are and they are the only ones to enforce the Statements of Procedures. This could not have been a more blatant. I was told by my commanders that “I was being too hard on KBR.” What does the War-Fighter need ? They cannot get the problem corrected themselves – they depend on DCMA to get that done for them.

  3. Comment by Ms Sparky:

    When I first arrived in the Green Zone in July 2004 I was never told by KBR the water in the tap (ANY TAP) was not potable. A co-worker who saw me brushing my teeth with the water in the bathroom warned me. She told me it was untreated Baghdad city water. I thought I would hurl right at that very moment. I immediately made a non-potable water sign and placed it on the mirror above the sink. I went to KBR Safety and KBR HR and expressed my concern. I was told to take the sign down they didn’t want to panic people. KBR knew about the water at least in July 2004. Sometimes the water stunk. Sometimes it burned your eyes. AT times it was so dirty it looked like someone didn’t flush the toilet. From that first moment I never drank or brushed my teeth in this water. But this is the water that KBR thought it was OK to shower in.

    Even though it appears Keven and I were in the Green Zone at the same time I didn’t know him then. But I have a feeling we would have gotten along great!

    • Comment by Unnown:

      Ms Sparky and also to Kevin on the water in the “green Zone”. When I worked in Class 1 water. That was a totally separate entity where an expate had to always be there when delivering to the main Palace “Embassy” until the new one was built. We were a straight cut intity. We superchlorinated our trucks every 90 days. And the ones at the KBR defac and Palace defac, and other sites including the hospital food potable water. We at Class 1 and the Bosnia’s from the water dept, had that to a T.

      Now there were alot of other water trucks that filled up there past the circle, that was a non-potable site. But that did not look like a potable water truck in the picture. We had 3 5,000 gallon water trucks that supplied certain entities in the “Green Zone”. When I left there to come down to Kuwait. It was being joined up with City services. Which has sewage trucks. and non-potable trucks. I was there in the “Green Zone” from Dec. 2006 to Nov 2008. Our warehouse was hit twice then we lost 2 Iraqi nationals that were good friends with us. I’m not sure of the other degrees of Potable water there. But I worked with 1 mgr and 1 transportation Co-ord., and 5 other drivers and 2 foreign nationals and 20 iraqi Nationals (less the 2 friends we lost). Our warehouse was across from the PMO building right beside the fire dept and across from the Maint facility. But I dont know of the other water depts at all I was only aware of ours. We kept ours clean as day and up to specs. That must of been another contract than ours I think ours was Task order 135 or something like that I cannot remember. It changed once or twice. Now there was another water area at the other site in D-2 that was KBR but totally separate from us. I dont know what they were up to at all. So if I hear anything I’ll let you know because that is really gross if that is/was going on. Makes me sick to my stomach and its un-imaginable.

      • Comment by Keven Barnes:

        Hello Unknown, I discovered this in Feb 2005 and you were there nearly 18 months later and an IG complaint had been filed and MG Scott replaced as the Head of DCMA.

        I could never figure out why a DCMA Colonel would cover up for KBR. If DCMA apologized to those in the Green Zone that they exposed to the filthy water, then I missed it.

  4. Comment by Ms Sparky:

    From an email I received this morning:

    Ms Sparky,

    This is an interesting subject; In June 2006 I was working for KBR at Kandahar Air Base, Afghanistan as Human Resources Generalist. I had several employees complaining about the shower water smelling like diesel fuel. This was also reported to the Project Manager and the Deputy Project Manager however nothing was done about it I so demobilized back to the states.

    • Comment by Keven Barnes:

      I never thought I would ever hear that again from anyone about someone else hearing complaints about their shower smelling like diesel fuel. You just never would believe it unless you heard that with your own ears. Just unbelievable.

      • Comment by Unnown:

        I will be more careful. When up-country when it comes to water/diesel/sewage. Those should be kept sept. I know here in Kuwait our water burns my skin here and there. And its not the heat burns. It’s just crappy water. Really need a water tester kit. Are there any here in Kuwait? When i was in Iraq and even here in Kuwait. I developed a total of 4 infections in my legs. Now I have scar tissue. On both legs. I dont where shorts anymore. I have had friends who have also developed major fast swelling in our legs and other limbs. I was transported once from Camp Liberty by Blackhawk to the “Green Zone Hospital” and 2 days later it cleared up after a ton of antibiotics and that was 2005 and then again in 2007 when I was in the “Green Zone” I went to the same hospital again for 36 hours till it cleared some then I was 14 or 15 days in my hooch. on bed rest. I should of been sent home but they kept me in the “Green Zone”. So I dont know if it was all the Bacteria or a spider bite or what. they could not really name the infection at all. Except say it was a Staff infection or something.

  5. Comment by Kat:

    It’s kinda twisted to say that I am looking forward to your next article Keven, but I am.
    Thank you Keven for writing about this.

    Thank you Ms Sparky for putting Keven’s words out for all to read. It’s important we be informed, and your site has all kinds of info, good, bad and ugly all rolled up into a nice neat place.

  6. Comment by Keven Barnes:

    Why would Ben Carter be writing this email 4 weeks after KBR was written a CAR ? This Shows that DCMA did cover-up and that KBR was in blissful Award Fee Heaven and totally unaccountable to the Statement of Procedures, DCMA,LOGCAP, or the troops and 1,700 organizations which included embassies. It also shows the problem was not isolated to what I found. I am sure this email made it to William Granger who was totally unresponsive and irresponsible as KBR Theater Manager of Water Operations.

    Original Incident Report — March 24, 2005
    From: Ben Carter
    Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 10:40 AM
    To: Suzanne Raku-Williams; Warren Smith
    Cc: Lisa Waterman; Walter Meyers
    Subject: Incident report from 23-March-2005 Water contamination
    On Wednesday morning I was notified by our Labor Foreman #1 of suspected micro-organisms in his water.
    Electric#1 had done a visual inspection and reported to me that he also had seen Asmall worms@ moving in the toilet
    bowl. I went to inspect this myself and saw what I believe were mosquito larvae. This is by no means to be considered
    to be a fact. I then immediately tested the cold water from the lav sink in Labor #1=s hooch for free chlorine. There
    was none detected. It had been my understanding that this water was non-potable but was chlorinated.
    I then proceeded to test several other locations including directly from the water storage tanks. I decided it was
    necessary to super chlorinate the entire KBR man camp water system. Also after close inspection of the water
    system, I noticed the storage tank air vents were completely open to outside contamination from a variety of sources.
    I directed the plumbers to cap the 2@ vents on each tank and to install turned down elbows with screens on the 4@
    openings. This has been completed. There is still improvement needed in securing the manhole covers from future
    contamination. I obtained two submersible pumps from rowpu and installed them in the tanks, the electrical
    department responded immediately to install the required wiring. The water tanks were then dosed with HTH chlorine
    of 68%. After a short period of time a free chlorine residual of 11ppm was obtained. I ran water in the man camp at
    the furthest point from the tanks until a residual of 13ppm was obtained. At this point in time, we directed all personnel
    to run the water in their hooch=s until chlorine was present at all points. It was determined that the water system
    should be allowed to sit for a 24 hour period of time. All personnel were directed to not shower or wash clothes until
    after 24 hours elapsed.
    During this same period of time I went out to the military rowpu site to inquire of SFC Roux (Spelling?) about the
    chlorination of their non-potable water. I was informed that they do not chlorinate this water at all. It is pumped only
    through their multi-media filter and dispensed from there. This is absolutely unsatisfactory for numerous reasons. To
    protect from hard-shell cysts, the only approved method is filtration down to 1 micron. Giardia cysts can range in size,
    but typically 5 micron is acceptable. These cysts cannot be killed effectively with chlorination. It is my opinion that the
    water source is without question contaminated with numerous micro-organisms, including Coliform bacteria. There is
    little doubt that raw sewage is routinely dumped upstream of intake much less than the required 2 mile distance.
    Therefore it is my conclusion that chlorination of our water tanks, while certainly beneficial is not sufficient protection
    from parasitic exposure. Possibly this can be remedied by additional filtering at the military rowpu through their
    cartridge filter system. My plan for now until the Water Works rowpu is operational is to perform routine chlorine
    analysis of the water, and to maintain a 5.0 ppm free chlorine residual at all times. To ensure the success off this new
    task, I must be informed of every new delivery of water to the tanks prior to filling.
    If there is anything I have missed, please feel free to contact me with any questions.
    Ben Carter
    KBR Services
    Rowpu Acting Lead
    Camp Ar Ramadi (B-4)
    APO AE 09395

  7. Comment by kgrant:

    Hello Mr. Barnes and Ms. Sparky,

    I was in thr Grren Zone at the same time you were, from 2004-2007. I remember you because I worked at the service desk in the palace (old embassy).I do remember having to let the water run in my trailer for several minutes in the morning before it would run clear, and sometimes smelling a sewer smell when I ran the shower, but we were never warned by any higher ups in KBR that the water was dangerous (what a surprise)I used bottled water to brush my teeth, but I noticed after awhile my skin was breaking out on my arms and legs, which never happened before. I talked to my camp manager, his name was Billy, and he told me it was probably the water, but nothing else was said or done about it.How KBR can endanger the health and lives of the soldiers and civilians that were trusting them to keep there food and water supply safe, all for the sake of a buck, it makes me sick to my stomach.I hope in the end they get what they deserve. Thank you for putting this information out for the whole world to see. Finally, KBR can be exposed for what it really is, a company based not on integrity and honor, but of greed and evil.

    • Comment by Unnown:

      That was a different Entity. That water was directly pumped out of the Tigres River. And Sewage was dumped in the hole by the PX and that ran as far as I know to the river for drainage. Im not 100% on that but otherwise Iraq does not have anykind of good drainage system at all. Or any real kind of sewage treatment. So my legs were probrobly infected by bad water and I did not even know it. Thats why KBR ha dme stay in the “Green Zone”. When I went home one time for it. The hospital even had the Center for Disease control, and said they did not even know what kind of infection it was it’s never been seen before. Now its all coming together. What can I do I’m sure KBR shredded or file 13 my medical files. Its been over 2 years almost 3 plus. I’m probrobly still infected with whatever that was. At a smaller level. Can someone shed some light on this maybe. Is there anyone else who is still having the same troubles with infections that came from KBR-Iraq.

  8. Comment by Keven Barnes:

    Hello kgrant, I do remember that service desk and you also. You can imagine that there were a range of emotions happening us at that time. A rocket entering the palace and if I remember right, you were located up the steps of the South part of the Palace where Barbara Heald’s body landed and no more than 50 feet away. That event led me to being assigned a job I had no idea about. The QARs that were there headed out gave no training on what a QAR did. Luckily we had a Change of Command ceremony that brought 2 excellent QARs to the Green Zone. We know, but maybe most readers don’t know that the 8 mile trip to Camp Victory and BIAP (Baghdad International AirPort) just wasn’t a day trip any longer. It was a trip during curfew in the earliest hours of the morning to get people back and forth – or a 10 minute helicopter ride that took a day to schedule yourself onto. USMI (United States Mission Iraq) or KBRs Task Order 100 (in case Senator Dorgan is reading and wondering why his investigation didn’t pick up the Green Zone. Maybe he will look into if KBR was given an Award fee despite what you, and I and thousands of others in the Green Zone who worked for 1700 different organizations and the number of Embassies that were “turned on” for water services and life support by DCMA and that KBR was paid to deliver.

    What would any of the readers do if their child came to them and said their shower smelled like fuel. Would they act or laugh it off. Week after week I saw this. The laundry going down for 2 weeks from the back-up tanks being filled from a fuel truck just validated what we knew in the DCMA office. Something was very wrong.

    15 individual subcontracts is irresponsible and suspect by itself. A KBR City Manager, City Operations scheduler, and an entire procurement team that wrote the subcontracts and allowed that to happen are also to blame. KBR’s QA/QC and KBR’s Contracts Administrator are entirely to blame for not following the Statement of Procedures to the T.

    I certainly wasn’t qualified to be doing that job, but at least I was not going to be deterred by the DCMA Army commander who wanted to cover it up. Captain Tryon, DCMA International Commander was as much a key figure there in Iraq to be setting the tempo for inspections and writing Corrective Action Reports. Why did it take an IG complaint. Why is the Army covering up for poor performance. Was it to allow KBR to collect the full award fee ? The whole idea of the award fee is award for good performance. Doesn’t delivering water to us in a water-truck used to haul sewage constitute poor performance and should have been something that fell under the False Claim Act.

    I am glad you made it out of there kgrant in one piece I hope.

  9. Comment by Cimi:

    Hello everyone,

    I am a former KBR employee and I have worked in corporate office as well as LOGCAP in Middle East and Central Asia (I am from Balkans). I have not read all the threads in details; however, I did read Mr. Keven Barnes’s experiences. As I was in Senior Management Position (Quality Management) I feel that I need to shed some light in few things. First off, I am CLSSBB (Certified Lean Six Sigma Black Belt) and ISO CMQ/OE (Certified Manager of Quality/Organizational Excellence) and worked in Quality arena for last 15 yrs and continue to do so at the moment. I currently work for GE as Senior Manager for Process Improvement Department covering Middle East region based in Dubai. Quality is in my veins. I have a master degree in International Relations.

    I did not mention my qualification because I am bragging about them but simply to let the readers know that comments are not coming from just anybody but someone who understands Quality Management Systems deeply and moreover someone who was part of the LOGCAP for years.

    Few terminology corrections: SOP stands for Standard Operating Procedure, not that it impacts the output but simply to clarify.

    I couldn’t agree more with Keven’s approach and the way he handled failures he discovered during his tenure as QAR.

    I would like to add to the subject something as I believe it adds value to the subject we’re discussing. I have dealt with DCMA team as a quality counterpart for quite some time and had my share of understanding DCMA’s program and strategies. Something that we are missing here is the fact that DCMA largely employed folks as QAR’s that absolutely no quality background; notwithstanding that there were few great QARs. This was a big concern and disadvantage as QAR’s were quite reliant to whatever was served by KBR.

    Good example is the “SOP audit”. The real question in my professional opinion is not “why QARs / DCMA did not audit to the KBR SOPs” but why DCMA did not follow their program and audited to the applicable standards (I will get deeper on the subject a bit later). If you read the LOGCAP Basic Contract language is very clear that KBR SOPs were Contractor’s internal procedures, auditable but DCMA and client had no authority to intervene into development and approval process. So we need to make the distinction here. Why is so important to emphasize that auditing to SOPs is not a real DCMA failure here? As mentioned earlier, some of the QARs did not understand the concept of LOGCAP contract; or rather some of them had no quality background which in my mind should have been foundation criteria for employing a QAR. Each task order in LOGCAP had a Statement of Work (SOW) which established contractual requirements (this is a document that legally and officially sets Contractor’s contractual obligations towards the client). Now, here where the problem starts. I usually tend to go to the roots of the problems. All SOWs were written so vaguely, ambiguously and poorly that one professional of Contract Management would simply laugh at them (mind you that SOWs are documents that originate from the client and in this case DCMA). I think it is significant to note that in LOGCAP philosophy DCMA was the client whereas troops were the customers. Nevertheless, even a poorly written document could very well assisted QARs in performing their jobs rightly and properly if they only knew what they were doing. Each SOW had a list of applicable contractually binding standards and references that contractually KBR was obligated to follow and implement. So, a professional quality person does not have to go and look for some internal SOPs generated by a company when the company being audited was obliged to follow set of standards that superseded their internal SOPs. So, instead of going to audit using the KBR SOP as a basis for their audit, QAR’s should of done their homework, look for the applicable standards, in this case as clearly mentioned by Keven, TB MED and audit to TB MED Standards which was largely more detailed and thorough than an internal KBR SOP.

    In simple terms, if QARs were familiar with basic quality rules and familiar with applicable standards we would have seen a much better quality oversight, well documented and better outcomes at the end.

    You have no idea how many hours I have spent talking to QARs explaining basic contractual rules of engagement and Quality Management Systems applicable to the LOGCAP Contract. I want to note that I have met and worked with some great DCMA QARs, true professionals but unfortunately majority of them had great intentions but were not equipped to do their jobs properly, did not have the right backgrounds and qualifications.

    I was a true professional that never covered the truth, very transparent and always done the utmost to do it right. I can give all QARs names that I dealt with as a reference for those who wish to check my integrity and professionalism.

    One thing that always bothered me was when a new QAR showed up with a predetermined agenda in his mind and making things worst with their actions. What do I mean by making things worst? Well, I have a lot of examples but I will share one so you understand where I am coming from.
    A newly deployed QAR wrote a Level II CAR “on a discharged fire extinguisher found on a military complex maintained by KBR”. Too many inconsistencies with this CAR; one, the protocol or better yet the DCMA Quality Assurance Plan was not followed as there were strict criteria as to what constitutes levels of CARs. Basis to write a CAR was a violation of a contractual requirement. No contractual requirement was identified in the CAR, and as soon as I received the CAR, I called QAR and I kindly asked him to set up a meeting with him to discuss the CAR, he simply told me, there is nothing to discuss about, answer the “damn CAR” in writing, I told him that the CAR is incomplete and I need some clarification. At any rate, he declined to meet and I kept my professionalism and investigated the matter very methodically. Not to overwhelm you with details, I’ll share the highlights: For that particular facility KBR was contracted to perform Fire & Emergency Services and there were quite a lot of NFPA standards applicable to include military standards as well. I consulted all applicable standards to determine KBR’s responsibility and level of service. According to all standards (common denominator) KBR had to provide and facilitate training programs to all occupants; however, extinguisher monthly check falls under the responsibility of the Facility Owner (military in this case). Regardless of the responsibility falling under the military (occupants) to conduct monthly inspection s of the extinguishers, KBR FD also performed monthly checks and review of the records proved that this particular extinguisher (ID of extinguisher was available) was actually checked by KBR and found in good condition three days before DCMA discovered it to be discharged. I went where the evidence led me, so I went and talked to the Camp Commander and then he referred me back to his subordinates and at the end it was found that extinguisher was utilized by one soldier for training purpose and the soldier admitted that in a sworn statement; however, he also admitted that it was his duty to go to the Fire Station and ask for a replacement. So, I collected all the facts and in writing presented it to the author of the CAR and asked him to rescind the CAR as it is not substantiated.

    This just flamed things up; I can even share e-mail correspondences that show QAR’s unprofessionalism and lack of basic quality knowledge (quality is about facts, not emotional state and opinions of people). He replied to my request to rescind the CAR with very accusatory harsh language that when I look back at times I just laugh at it. In nut shell he told me that I had no such authority to ask to rescind the CAR and he is the client and he can write whatever he feels is right and all my job was to answer his CAR. I elevated this matter to the DCMA Commander at that time who did not take any action therefore I e-mailed this matter the Rock Island folks who apologized for the unprofessionalism of the QAR and two days later QAR was deported from the areas I covered and was sent somewhere in Afghanistan. I can only imagine what KBNR folks had to go through in Afghanistan.

    This story was just to share the experience and simply highlight that, by no means am I trying to say KBR was great. I agree 100% with Keven but at the same time one should realize that DCMA QARs were an integrated part of the problem.

    Believe it or not, I dealt with one QAR who just came in from the States and during the very first coordination meeting where I usually participated and we had main customer players, KBR and DCMA participating, when he introduced himself he stated I quote “I am xxxx, I am a democrat and I am here to ensure that I write as many CARs as necessary to make soldier’s life a better life”. That shocked me, so everybody introduced briefly themselves (a protocol when new members joined the team) and when my turn came I stated “I am xxx, KBR Sr. Quality Manager and I am not American, neither a republican nor a democrat, I am here to ensure that KBR fulfills its obligation towards the client and customer in accordance with the contractual requirements”. That sparked a controversy and for next 6 months of his deployment time he did issue over 20 CARs and all of them ridiculous CARs very subjective and emotional and no professional approach.

    So, at the end, KBR did some unacceptable things and this contributed somewhat to my decision to depart; however, keep in minds that DCMA was just as guilty.

  10. Comment by Keven Barnes:

    I will be the first to admit, I had no QAR training before I was assigned during a Saturday staff meeting and there was no effort by DCMA to train. As for an agenda, I was disturbed to received the complaints from people that their showers smelled like diesel fuel and the inaction of the QARs that were there or the DCMA commanders to deal with that as a serious problem. I am sure if you only had 6 hours of training and handed a stack of Statement of Procedures, you would have dealt with KBR differently.
    The CAR KBR received was a “Written Verbal” – even I asked why not just make it a verbal only ? So the intent was not to hit them with a Level III CAR – only a verbal. I wasn’t aware of any Levels, but what I found didn’t qualify for a CAR – IT QUALIFIED FOR THE TERMINATION OF KBRs CONTRACT and to knock their award fee for TASK ORDER 100 to zero %. It qualified to file a False Claim against KBR for completely lying that they were performing that SOP and for 2 years charging for giving water in trucks that were daily being used to haul sewage.
    I had a LtCol that wanted to end KBRs contract for having no towels at the gym. Ok, that was whining.
    Knocking out the laundry for the State Department and Ambassador for 17 days because KBR delivered water used normally to haul diesel fuel – that was bad and you don’t need a Sigma 6 Black Belt to see that.
    Before I wrote that CAR, I fully researched what KBR should have been doing for water they supplied to everyone in the Green Zone including 5 DFACS. I had the input from my home County Health Inspector and 2 (15-year) Qualified QARs and there is no doubt that this could not have been a worse finding. Ok, maybe a dead body floating in the water supply tank to the palace. This was fraud. Who brought those charges against KBR?
    DCMA were too busy covering up for KBR in this case, and not for not one or two people, but for a group of KBR managers that had the responsibility to provide potable water at the chlorinated level and from a clean truck that never in its history was used to haul sewage and that was “super-cleaned” once a week.
    So you are right – there was a cover-up by DCMA and it should have been the DCMA commander who took the simple information that I gave and acted on it – not asked me to destroy all the evidence. That was the first time I had dealt with U.S. Army integrity. A real eye-opener.

    • Comment by Cimi:


      I have an immense respect for professionals like yourself and for all others who sincerely do their jobs. Unfortunately, the failures in LOGCAP Contract are way too many and a lot of people contributed to it. Not only DCMA was an agency that brought people to perform duties of QARs without specific training but KBR was even worst. KBR Quality Departments throughout theater had employees that couldn’t even spell quality. I guess, all I wanted to say in my previous message was the fact the responsibility for such failures is a shared one. I have never been and never will be loyal to any company, I am loyal to my principles and that’s how operated when I worked with KBR. I worked for Halliburton prior to that, Siemens, Alstom, GE and few other known corporation but never did I allow myself to do the wrong thing. As far as DCMA was concerned based on my own experience I was shocked the way things got handled. We established one fact already that KBR had unqualified resources and people who had no idea what they’re doing but not all of them. I have met some people in KBR with a lot of talent and great intentions. Nedless to say I worked for a person who I doubt had a high school diploma but yet he was a KBR Project Manager so I believe that tells you enough about the resources and organizational structures of KBR and that greatly contributed to my departure. On the other hand, I was witness of a lot of failures and major issues that were somehow linked to KBR and in reality weren’t. I, myself have a great respect for soldiers as most of my family were killed as martyrs in Balkans war and you can only imagine how I view soldiers. I done my utmost to ensure that soldiers get the highest level of service as contracted, of course within the realms of my authority. I was also fortunate enough that I did not work in Afghanistan or Iraq because I was there on business trips few times and I saw first hands how things got handled in KBR and DCMA arena. I was actually in Kuwait. At any rate Mr. Kevin, I want to commend you for “doing it right” and sticking to the principles, at the end that’s what quality and integrity is all about. One thing to consider is that LOGCAP Contracting philosophy is wrong to begin with and too many constraints to include FAR and DFAR regulations. Perhaps I am more inclined to the true working environment and commercial business and that’s why maybe I did not quite fit into the mix of cover ups and wrongdoings. I share the opinion that DCMA in part was covering up and at times didn’t knwo how to address issues.

      • Comment by Ms Sparky:

        Cimi-Thank you for you informative professional respectful response.

      • Comment by Keven Barnes:

        Thank you Cimi, it is not so hard to do the right thing and it baffles me why a U.S. Military Officer would cover-up for the only contractor they were responsible for keeping in line. What was the motivation. And not one officer, but several. This was an organizational cover-up.

        I will tell you that to this day, no one from DCMA ever said I did the right thing.

        I think DCMA owes those who were exposed to sewage water for showers an apology. No other organization had the power of oversight or to take correct action with the snap of their fingers.

  11. Comment by New Dawn:

    So you admit you had no training and still went along with the program. Why wasn’t there any emails to Rock Island to expose this BS? Alot of questions left unanswered. So after your tour you too joined KBR, so i guess if you can’t beat them then join them. Let me guess you took a job in QA?

    • Comment by Ms Sparky:

      Did you read the article or are you just talking out your butt? I get so damn tired of some of the ignorant assholes who post comments here. I have a very specially wired shower for you with special Baghdad water!!

      • Comment by New Dawn:

        Well Sparky i guess you must be an expert but right now you are house sitting. I am an Ass, you and kevin talk out both sides of your mouth. Bash KBR but still work for them and in Keven Case he said they were jacked up but went to work for them anyway. oh well enjoy guys as you see i don’t pay much attention to your replies.

        • Comment by Ms Sparky:

          And….I am home by choice and loving every minute of it. Thanks for asking!

        • Comment by Keven Barnes:

          New Dawn – did you even look at the pictures ?

          I see you don’t read or look at pictures. What is your point.

          I think a Freedom of Information Act request is in order to request the exact CAR that I wrote and another to request the reports that went into evaluating KBR for the first quarter of 2005 and see if this was used against KBR or did Colonel McQuain tell KBR to disregard the write-up.

          • Comment by New Dawn:

            No i did not look at the pictures and i do read some of your comments. Seems odd all of a sudden you come out of the wood work concerning all of these cover ups and CARS KBR should have recieved if it was such gross oversight or coverup why didn’t you go the route of whistleblower and expose the whole deal instead of coming here to a right wing blog to air the dirty laundry? We are talking 2005 and here it is 2010. It took you 5 years to find enough balz to finally put this in writing or is it sparky who gave you the opportunity to post your findings? Yes i know you are both home by choice and i am pretty sure you do read my post sparky if you were then you would not post a reply. When is the next article coming out Keven?

            • Comment by Keven Barnes:

              I only found Ms Sparky this year. As for reporting KBRs fraud. I did that from the day I took those pictures.
              DCMA MG Scott was shown the door shortly after the IG complaint that I wrote and filed.
              That IG was given to Congressmen Thompson in California and Senators Boxer and Feinstein within 2 months of the Army dragging their feet [Read: covering up for KBR] Drag it out longer, more award fees that the Army and DCMA could try to gift award fees to KBR – right?
              A blog like this is not going to fix that problem directly so that the people I worked with in the Green Zone were going to get clean water. Compelling DCMA to do their jobs was the most direct method of communication and if you read the story, I did that when I showed U.S. Army Commanders Colonel McQwain and LTC Conklin the pictures (which you should look at before saying what you don’t know) which is very apparent. Ms. Sparky is giving you the details and you seem to be to lazy to read the fully story.
              An IG did hold some accountable and is an official record. Next is to find out if KBR received an award fee for that same period of time for not fulfilling their contractual obligations.
              So why didn’t KBR see a Qui Tam suit for defrauding the Government? Why haven’t they been debarred by DCMA or the Army by now. Why are they still one of the LOGCAP contractors with all that we have read on Ms. Sparky. The level of evidence to debar them was exceeded years ago. Who is protecting them? What Congressman are they giving money to in order to not be put on the Excluded Parties Listing System. Hopefully someone comes forward.
              Have a good day Dawn. I don’t spend all my time looking for your posts.

              • Comment by New Dawn:

                As you see those congressman were both democrats i figured they would be on KBR like stink on dodo but nope they have more issues to worry about Fluor and Dynacorp. As you see from your post you sent this information to everyone under the sun and have we seen any results? Nope because the 2 new companies on the block are keeping the goverment officals busy trying to figure out how to spin the set backs they are having. As for Debar i have no idea who is protecting who but as you see Agility is buying there way out they offered 3/4 of a billion to get out of there issues. I would focus on them instead of trying to kick KBR in the Koqes the fox is in the hen house and before you know it there will be no more hens. This is bigger pot of stew than you, me or sparky can stir. But of course i am sure you will success by posting here on Ms Sparky. Good luck.

                • Comment by Keven Barnes:

                  New Dawn
                  If you Google Ms Sparky – what do you see?

                  Ms Sparky
                  26 Sep 2010 … A political blog exposing KBR and corporate greed among DoD contractors.
                  mssparky.com/ – Cached – Similar

                  She is very clear who she is hunting. The site exposes KBR.

                  Democrats or Republicans, they are all getting lobbies monies and still KBR is not on the EPLS. Even with all the stories about them. Why?

                  Why talk about Agility, they didn’t use 15 water trucks to haul water and sewage in the same truck on the same day. KBR committed this chemical warfare. Why. They allowed an Iraq subcontractor to contaminate the water supply of Americans. Probably a number one source to protect the soldiers and LOGCAP users from and they blew the most basic need.

                  DCMA need to find those subcontracts and disallow the costs. They can do this up to 6 years after the close of the contract. What is DCMA waiting for. Where are the DCAA auditors to explain that they recovered the money that we were charged for what constitutes an act of sabatoge – except we paid the contractor to poison us. Get the picture. This is not incompetence – this was criminal. Why were the managers not charged with a crime ? The City Manager ?

                  Don’t stick up for the New Dawn. Try to focus and open your eyes before you yap off again. Read the entire article and try comprehending it and look at the pictures and the links.

                  Readers are seeing that you have not done your home work – but are spouting off and trying to divert attention from a criminal act committed by KBR.

                  • Comment by New Dawn:

                    LOL, those are a lot big words keven it is unfortuate that no one is listening. I don’t know the inner works of the DCMA nor do i care to know them. Keep the focus on KBR as you and Sparky are doing and you think KBR is doing wrong you might want to take off those blinders and focus on the present instead of the past. I don’t see any of this on NBC, CBS or Fox News. It is not news that people are worried about. That is just the fact of the matter. Anyway i know you are busy man and i will leave you to continue to report your saga. When is part 3 hitting the press? Thanks

                    • Comment by Ms Sparky:

                      What is more disturbing than what KBR is or isn’t doing is that the general public is more interested in what Lindsay Lohan is doing. Americans are dying almost every day in the Middle East and the media is bored with it all. That is what is truly sad.

                      The news media has become nothing more than info-entertainment.

  12. Comment by Keven Barnes:

    New Dawn, I didn’t “go along with the program.”

    I guess first you have to understand what DCMA is and that is an Agency that oversees large contracts and it is made up of and when it started and the role of the Individual Mobilization Augmentee of which I was one of three USAF Master Sergeant Reservists in the United States in DCMA [Emphasis – Reservist]

    DCMA was created in 2000. Previously, it had been part of the Defense Logistics Agency Noun 1. Defense Logistics Agency – a logistics combat support agency in the Department of Defense; provides worldwide support for military missions
    Defense Department, Department of Defense, DoD, United States Department of Defense, Defense – the federal department and had been called the Defense Contract Management Command. The initial command workforce in the early 1990s was about 26,000 civilian and military members. Through consolidating activities, DCMA has reduced personnel to about 9,500. The professional workforce is composed of engineers; contract administration specialists; price cost analysts; transport, packaging, and industrial specialists; and quality assurance experts. About 600 employees are based overseas today, including a contingent in Iraq.

    From those 2 links Dawn, you will understand that I would not write to “Rock Island” as DCMA’s HQ is at Ft. Belvoir, Va. and I was a USAF Reservist that was part of a 17 person unit located at the Sharp Army Depot in Lathrop, California and I was at the time the only Air Force person they had. DCMA Reserves is multi-service. Navy, Marines, Army and AF. I had a Navy Commander who I saw 1 time before I deployed as a Contracts Administrator – NOT a QAR. While in the Green Zone I worked Operations, Contract Administration, and then because a QAR quit after a rocket attack – I was assigned the job and DCMA made the decision to put me there. Little did they know what I would find.

    I did write. I wrote LtCol Judy Fern and she did nothing. I wrote Major General Daryl Scott and he did nothing. I wrote an IG complaint and that saw the end of MG Scott’s role as Director of DCMA. On what terms he left, I don’t know. I wrote my Congressman Thompson and Senators Boxer and Feinstein. So, I wrote a lot to expose what Colonel McQuain wanted to cover-up. I sent along the evidence that Ms Sparky has kindly posted and linked. I gave that same information to those officers and officials in hopes that those I worked with in the Green Zone would not have to take showers in sewer water for too much longer.

    It appears the Stars and Stripes ran an Article about DCMA’s failure.

    IG Report

    You are wrong on KBR too. I went there to continue my career in the contracting career field. We worked 12 hour days and 7 days a week and that is like working 2 years in 1 year. One of the first things I worked on with 2 other subcontracts administrators was to wipe out those 15 individual subcontracts and at the time when I was with DCMA, I didn’t know how those water trucks were being used for hauling sewage. That part of the story was learned when I worked for KBR. I looked each of those subcontracts and saw for myself they were billing ( I should say the KBR City Manager was billing since he did their invoicing on his Government issued computer) for hauling water and sewage. Since I believe he was getting kick-backs from those subcontractors – he had the incentive to have those trucks perform as many hauls as possible and it didn’t matter what they hauled. All their invoices were identical in format and he lined them up like ducks and they were paid cash. I helped end the use of the dual purpose Scope of work. I wrote William Granger while trying to put the STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDUREs for water ops to incorporate the 13 pages and the Contracts Manager, Julie McEachern wanted to be difficult and her view was that the dual one worked just fine. So the culture of corruption within KBR was well in-grained. Procurement Manager, QA/QC Manager, Project Manager, Vehicle Maintenance Managers (Super-Cleaning), City Operations Manager, Housing Manager for Man-Camps. All knew that those Water Tanker trucks were hauling both water and sewage.

    I was not trained to be a QAR at any stage of my military career. I learned what they were supposed to do and maybe I didn’t do the task in a war-zone like CIMI the Sigma Blackbelt. But I was effective in letting my DCMA commander know the problem, showing him the evidence, and then when he covered it up, letting my command structure, of which there was very little of know. They all had the duty and responsibility to the “War-Fighter” and to those people working in the 1700 organizations that DCMA “turned-on” for Life Support to protect from the contaminated water. DCMA is the last check and balance and they failed and they covered up. They ignored their Master Sergeant that they threw into the job and then they replaced him when “was being too tough on KBR” as the DCMA Commander told me. I am glad the replacement from Kuwait was standing next to me when those “Water Trucks” started dumping Black Water sewage”


    you are off base dawn as to my integrity and determination to expose what KBR was doing to us. I think I succeeded – it just took too long for an IG to work and too long for the changes to take place. DMCA could have fixed that very quickly and penalized KBR at the Award Fee Board that met Quarterly – but instead they covered up what amounted to something that would qualify under the False Claim Act. Charging for something they didn’t perform – provide potable water using the correct equipment and standards.

  13. Comment by Jake:

    I know for a fact that KBR was well aware of the contaminated water in in the Green Zone. I was warned personally in 2005 by the safety manager not to drink it, brush my teeth with it and not to stay in the shower very long. He told me it was no better than what was in the Tigris River and that is nothing more than a sewer. I remember when the shit hit the fan so to speak and we had to post every water outlet as NOT POTABLE. It’s really sad it took that for KBR to step up and do what anyone with half a brain knows is right. Maybe KBR management is so used to dishing out KBR crap they thought a little extra sewer water wouldn’t matter. It is just beyond comprehension they could disregard such a dangerous health and safety issue as contaminated water. So much for their whole “Safety First” BS. We should make the SLT and KBR’s corporate cronies drink a whole liter!

  14. Comment by Keven Barnes:

    New Dawn, I think the effect on KBR can be seen here and now with 2 other qualified companies competing on Task Orders and a reduced roll of KBR. Maybe some one can tell us how many Billions of Dollars has KBR lost to Fluor and DynCorp.

    Now I think the focus is to get these women protected on the camps. Ms Sparky is doing her part but DCMA and the Army are not. Arm them and let them get lots of practice. Shooting the perpetrators will be the easy part.

    Maybe not as easy as the Army Afghan Sport-Shooting club who stand up their unarmed victims against a wall and tell them to hold still while they shoot them or throw a handgrenade at them. http://afghanistan.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/27/background-u-s-soldiers-charged-with-murder/

    No, she will give them a chance to give up their intentions – then she will shoot them.

    • Comment by New Dawn:

      Yes it is 2 other and can you see how much havoc it has caused since they decided to go with Fluor and Dyncorp in Afghanistan? As you can see sir that they did not want this mayhem in Iraq and the Big Dogs told them hell no and go on about your rat killing. The Customer and workers are reaping the effects of the Big Switch. KBR under bid both by a billion dollars and look at what they got. CARS flying daily and peak this Keven, Fluor has more people in the Northern section than KBR had in the whole country and they got the job done can you say waste of billions? Can you add those eggs up is there something wrong with that picture? Heck no you are busy writing your book about 2005 instead of packing 300 folks in a tent with the electrical wiring right above your head, Camps being flooded out and fend for yourself as the operations is run from Greenville and Dallas. For once KBR is being proactive about the sexual assault issue and of course get kicked in the billards for that as well. Do nothing get roasted, do something get a class action lawsuit my god folks will it ever end no. Again is anyone listening heck no. The folks back home are concerned about other issues then some former DCMA QAR who is now airing his information on a blog instead of main stream media, why because they did not think it was news. I am not trying be disrespectful sparky just reading it the way it is. Aim High, no Kevin you are aiming low.

      • Comment by Keven Barnes:

        New Dawn, you are a crack up. “For once KBR is being proactive about the sexual assault issue…” You must be in denial. Again, you are proving you just show up here without reading.

        Proactive for KBR on sexual assault means the following:

        1. Lock up the victim until the evidence is destroyed.

        2. Make deals with the U.S. Army CID to be given the evidence kit so that it can get “misplaced.”

        3. As an American company facilitate the escape of an Indian national after he raped an American woman with the help of the American Army staff.

        4. Being the leading American company with the honor of having the most employees raped per week than any other company in the world.

        5. Run practice charades on how to pretend to help a rape victim when the actual training is how to destroy the evidence. Did DCMA teach you that ?

        No, ND, your propaganda on behalf of KBR doesn’t ring true with the evidence against them. What I don’t understand is why the Army and DCMA haven’t debarred them yet.

        I will tell you why the Army doesn’t debar them – it is the same reason that they gave drugs to guys in Afghanistan to facilitate them staying in the war-zone. The Army tolerate the lowest level of performance (KBR delivering water in sewage removal trucks) that the same level of integrity of trophy hunters.

        That was a low blow to the Army wasn’t it. I watch that defending attorney shamefully look stunned in silence looking as stupid as Bush in the movie W when getting stumped by a simple question. WTF are the Army thinking giving drugs to guys on duty with weapons.

        I’ll tell you what they were doing – facilitating exactly what transpired and the excuse will be it was the 2 IED attacks. That works until you get the number of guys in on sport killing.

        Usually I could give a crap about what Korrupt Karzi has to say, but this time, I want to hear.

        U.S. Army crimes like that are a gift that just keeps on giving – to the enemy. Great job morons. I can see the rule coming. “You survive one IED attack” You are going home.

        I used to watch these kids come off of missions at Union III in the Green Zone and the first thing they did was pick up their video games. Their missions were just an extension of their video games.

        Petraus was worried about Wikileaks? – this was a magnitude so far above in the damage to the reputation of the U.S. that buying a bunch of books or spending even one minute whining about Wikileaks doesn’t even come close to the damage to the reputation of the United States that these Army guys have caused. Low ND, nothing can be lower than taking a guy who is complying with your authority and walking him out from his family and putting him next to a wall and he complies because you had the implied authority. Does the Army think they will get that obedience after the Afghan people hear this ?? And we are worried about Wikileaks and buying up 10,000 books, but ignore the trophy hunters in Afghanistan who were standing in front of an evaluation professional who just wrote him another prescription instead of sending him home.

        • Comment by New Dawn:

          You should write a book kevin seems like we are the only discussing this. Get the hint no one is interested so i will leave you to your writing.

          • Comment by john.sensen:

            I’m interested and following on.

          • Comment by Keven Barnes:

            ND, thanks, but I am sure we haven’t heard the last of you from KBR HQ.

            Tell them to try some other PR that they are doing nothing wrong – still.

            How is the lawsuits against your parent company going over the Gulf Oil Disaster. They probably need you to write on blogs attacking HAL.

            Write again when you have time.

            Has KBR hired some CSI techs yet to alter evidence. Check it out. That’s what I heard.

      • Comment by all ears:

        ND, where did you get your info on the CARs being daily? There was one CAR for a DFAC 2 months or so ago about not having trash removed. That DCMA knew nothing because at this particular camp the DFAC Supervisor had nothing to do with the trash overflow. That trash contract was performed by the US Military. The CAR was thrown out! Fluor has gotten less CARS. Look at electrical now. NO MORE PANDUIT! All has to be conduit like the NEC calls for! KBR could have been doing this but no way were they to change. As for KBR finally being proactive about sexual assaults. Why did it take until 2010? How many women were victims to the perp and KBRs arbitration? Too late in the day as the train left the station on that comment. You are correct about DCMAs. It is not that it is not news people do not wish to hear it is not news because it is too complicated for most Americans to stay tuned as they like “sound bite news” only ! I say we need more pit bulls like Keven. The taxpayer has been asleep for years when it comes to government waste and they do not realy care in todays society.

  15. Comment by New Dawn:

    Well i am sure Senators in washington are reading this so oh well. All Ears enjoy yourself in afghanistan and no kevin i am not at HQ. Keep writing i am sure someone will pay attention sooner or later.

  16. Comment by all ears:

    ND , At least one Senator is and has been. Al Franken to name him. You are a typical idiot who casts aspersions and fails to have a decent civil discourse based on academic principles and facts. You just like to disrepect people who try to change things for the better but you are one who fights to go to the head of the line to reap the benefits of people such as Keven. If it was not for activists such as Keven you would not have the right to vote, equal pay for equal work and the list goes on and on. If there were more like you 70-80 years ago then you would just stay home and not have a job and be sub serviant to your man and do as you were told to. You fail to see the big picture. You are a sad excuse for a person. I bet you are a bigot as well.

    • Comment by New Dawn:

      i am just shaking in my boots Ear to the Ground. he is only on KBR for a reason, if he look outside that box he is sitting he would see more corruption and crap but it is easier to just sit on KBR. You can say all you want dude. If a MSGT disrespect a field grade officer i have no respect for him. I guess they don’t teach the Air Force anything about respect. Only to play golf and get weekend passes in boot camp.

  17. Comment by Keven Barnes:

    ND, if you were in the Green Zone in 2005 and 2006, then you probably took a shower in some decent water because I wrote to the IG first and followed up with the Congressmen and my 2 Senators Boxer and Feinstein. But instead you whine – why ? You remind me of the Army LTC who stormed in the DCMA office in Baghdad to say KBR should lose the contract because there were no towels in the Gym – just juvenile. Read the material ND.

    I am curious – why do you come to this site. What is your contribution to fighting the corruption ? Waiting ND on your reply ………………….

    • Comment by New Dawn:

      you are not going to get one Keven you are doing enough commenting for all of us. spread the wealth keven there is more than kbr but wait you know more about KBR when the other contractors are sailing along. Ever heard of Custer and Battle? Don’t go googling it. Keep up the good work Keven.

      • Comment by Keven Barnes:

        ND – I thought you left ?
        What are you talking about now ?
        Really, you should read Ms Sparky more often. She is trying to inform you and you just are not staying informed.

  18. Comment by all ears:

    ND, what a idiot, imbecile and fool you are! You cast aspersions and try to tweek noses but you do not address issues with facts. I do not remember Keven saying he knows more than other contractors. You say this as fact so then since he has written so much please point it out for the whole world to see. You are nothing but a armchair whiner. There are plenty of those. You like to suck up to the boss and kiss @ss! You choose to not try to make any place better at all. One hopes that one day a thief will break into your house and take all you have from your time here. What does Custer have to do with anything? Did he use contractors? He also abused Indians so how do you connect Keven and Custer? OIC! He was military and so was Keven. You do not add value to anything in life and not even to this blog. You better go see the great KBR medics with your mental issues

    • Comment by Long Time in Kuwait:

      uhhh….. all ears…. you may want to Google “Custer-Battles”….

      What he’s referring to is a private security company that was debarred from working in Iraq after A LOT of overcharging was proven.

      He’s not talking about General George Custer, West Point graduate, former commander of Fort Sill, OK, and famous for this loss at the Little Big Horn.

      • Comment by New Dawn:

        I guess Ears does not read either so who is the fool now ears LOL. Gen Custer, bone head we are taking 21st Century not stealing the west from the Indians.

    • Comment by Keven Barnes:

      Custer Battle had a Qui Tam filed by the now Congressman Alan Grayson who was at the time going after fraud. I don’t know what Grayson is doing these days on DoD Contractor fraud. I have read nothing that Grayson has done since he took a Government job. Funny that eh?

      So what of this DoD Contractor ND ? It has been written about on the NET for 6 months. Is that as up-to-date as you are ?

      And what Field Grade Officer are you talking about – the fine field grade officers from Camp Arifjan that are sitting in Ft Leavenworth, Kansas for taking kickback and bribes? All 20 of them. You are right ND, I have no respect for them at all. Maybe you mean the Field Grade Officer Major Wolverton ? The pedophile – no, no respect for him either. You let me know ND.

  19. Comment by Keven Barnes:

    Do you mean Colonel Miles, the DCMA commander who had dental floss coming out of his shower head and laughed it off and never demanded a complete inspection in early 2004 when he could have determined this problem for himself.

    Why is it that it is a MSgt finding the facts out and fixing the problems that Colonels like him do not ND.

    Now focus bone head – or at least try. 2 different DCMA commanders knew about this problem and did nothing. 2 Deputy commanders also knew and didn’t connect the dots.

    I just gave them the pictures and had a USAF Captain standing next to me and they ignored him too. Sounds like the Army in DCMA are ignoring AF counterparts.

    Go back to sleep ND – you said you were leaving. Goodbye.

    • Comment by New Dawn:

      LOL, i think i have been banned. Yes were ignored because bigger fish were running the roast keven. I thought you had understood this. I wonder who is listening now?

  20. Comment by all ears:

    ND that was my point about you. You do not state facts. I wanted to talk about 100 years ago because you only parcel out bits of comment. This shows that you do not know how to have aa intelligent conversation. K and Echo and the water arrived daily that was supposed to have come from a water point in the prospective cities. One constantly saw weeds and stones in the glass jars when we sampled the trucks and no chlorine residuals. I was told to accept the trucks

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