Logistics Civilian Augmentation Program (LOGCAP) Logo
I’ve received several emails looking for clarification on different LOGCAP IV transition issues in Afghanistan.
One of the biggest complaints I’m hearing is about employees incurring airfare costs upon demob with Fluor and Dyncorp.
KBR employees have enjoyed the freedom of not paying for airfare on demob no matter when they demob’d. I’ve heard of KBR employees flying into Baghdad International Airport (BIAP), immediately deciding Iraq was not for them and heading home on that very same plane. All the while not incurring any of the costs to mobilize them. I have never heard of a KBR employee being charged for airfare on demob even if they were fired. It could have happened, I’ve just never heard of it.
From what I understand, KBR’s LOGCAP III contract states something along the lines of….if a new hire demobs prior to 180 days of being in country (mobilization), KBR will incur the costs to replace that employee. It’s apparent to me the Army was not enforcing this portion of KBR’s contract. I believe KBR was practicing their “let’s just do it ’til we get caught” management style. I find it highly unlikely KBR would pay out their own pocket to send the average everyday KBR employee home. Managers might be a different story. KBR was making money on every mobilization having NO INCENTIVE to establish any kind of employee retention program allowing the worst of the worst managers to float to the top.
I find it improbable the Army is not aware of what could be 100′s of millions of recoverable dollars owed by KBR. I’m also convinced they have made it clear to all LOGCAP IV contractors this portion of the contract will be enforced.
Dyncorp and Fluor are now transitioning into LOGCAP IV. They know full well the DoD is on to this little KBR scam and are they not willing to incur the costs of these demob tickets. I believe the length of time in the LOGCAP IV contract is 120 days before the contractor does not have to incur cost. If you demob or are terminated before 120 days you are responsible to pay for your own ticket home. And it does not matter how long you worked for KBR prior to this. Your days start from the “effective” date of your new contract.
They will not leave you stranded in Afghanistan. I’m not sure if they are required to return you to your point of origin or the nearest International Airport on LOGCAP IV. They will at the very least deduct airfare from your last check.
Someone brought up the point that the DoD paid KBR for a round trip ticket when you mobilized. So you ask…”What about all the people in Afghanistan who mobilized for KBR and are transitioning to Fluor or Dyncorp?”
Yes…the DoD did pay KBR for a round trip ticket when you mobilized. This ticket does not transfer when you transition to Fluor or Dyncorp. But, legally KBR can’t keep the money for this return ticket and should be writing a big ol’ check for all those employees return tickets, who are transitioning to LOGCAP IV, in Afghanistan. I hope the Army is on top of this!
So in a nutshell….if you are KBR employee in an area that has transitioned to Dyncorp and you find out on day 2 they suck and you aren’t going to tolerate that kind of mistreatment or they aren’t paying you on time or…..or….or….the list goes on and on…. If you demob, you will pay for your own ticket. I suggest you start putting some money aside now or stick it out until your 120th day or your 1st R&R. Plan ahead! That R&R ticket home will be cheaper than a one way ticket home.
Aldo, once you sign your new contract with Fluor or Dyncorp that is the contract in effect upon the “effective” date. It doesn’t matter what someone told you verbally or via email, how you did it at KBR, how long you worked for KBR or what the KBR contract states. You don’t work for KBR anymore. It doesn’t matter if you worked for KBR for five years, you are now the FNG at Fluor and Dyncorp.
I am getting bombarded with transition concerns. Keep them coming. Leave them as a comment or shoot me an email. Give as much information as possible.
Ms Sparky
KBR never gave us a copy of our paperwork. We were told there is a slight chance that those without offers could be in limbo and would have to pay for their own ticket if no job was available. Houston HR guy said kbr was in trouble for billing the government for that ticket and in the last 2 years had only billed for half of the ticket. He said kbr was eating the cost now. We were told that if we dated our demob paperwork we were demobed right then and there and no transfer to Fluor. “intimidation” ” perhaps? I have an offer so I am ok but others are in limbo. He said 3 people already were in that limbo boat. We “voluntarily” gave up that ticket or else we will not transfer.
I am so sick and tired of the threats and intimidation from KBR. Even being threatened by a completely different company will be a breath of fresh air.
Spiffy logo-KBR really shoulda used Geico’s ‘pile of money with googly eyes’ Guy,except the cute little scamp should be giving the bird with one hand and have it’s other hand behind it’s back hoping it wont get caught….
IF you are in Iraq and offerd a postion with Fluor in Afghanistan, be advise it is taking 50-120 days to get the FBI to process and approve the SF85 from, if you have done this SF85 for KBR, you must do it again Fluor style, no APO or overseas address for refrences or “people who know ya” It takes about 3 reviews to ge it right, and then Fluor sends to FBI that where the delay is..Medical and dental are done at your home via occu-med, so be sure you know that it will take some time to process, and KBR has never done this type of checks on anyone..good luck.im still here, waiting and..the economy is not better than 6 mo ago..must be Bush’s fault….(lol)
LOL, Scott i hear you buddy i am sitting tight waiting to see what is going as well. I heard of some folks being there almost 120 days. Thanks for the update sir
I have run into this issue and would like to bring it out in the open. If you apply for an Electrician position with LOGCAP IV contractors you must be State Certified. This seems reasonable. Further, if you have applied for an Electrical General Foreman, Electrical Supervisor or Electrical Superintendent position you must be a State certified ‘Master Electrician’.
I have been told by the big 3 (and the smaller) contractors for LOGCAP IV that to be hired as an Electrical General Foreman, Electrical Supervisor or Electrical Superintendent the Government requires that you have this Master Electrician license.
I see a problem with this.
Not all states offer a ‘Master Electrician’ license (very few according to my research). Take California for example, that state only offers a ‘General Electrician’ license. California also refuses to recognize any other state license (no reciprocity) so California state licenses are not valid anywhere but California. The idiots running California are the reason for this but that is another story…
I have looked into getting a Master Electrician license from one of the few states that offer it but some have residency requirements and others require you to be certified in their state for 2 to 4 years before you can apply for the Master Electrician license. Some states equate a Master license with an Electrical Contractors license.
This appears to be discrimination to me. You can be a 30 year IBEW trained, state certified General Foreman/Superintendent electrician from California yet the best you can get is an Electrical Foreman position under the current LOGCAP IV rules.
Do you know if this is really a requirement of the Government for LOGCAP IV electricians?
If it is than the pool of qualified electricians has been severely limited by those setting the guidelines.
I just wanted to get my opinion out there and see if anybody else has been offered a lesser position due to this ‘requirement’.
Thanks,
I believe these new rules and people they hire on Logcap IV is due to the electrical issues of Iraq that they don’t want repeated. Just like the BMI restriction and the testing that the LOGCAP IV requries you to have for certain jobs is not the contractor but the government. I am sorry to say sir you can have 30 years experiance and i as an example can have 5 years experiance and Master electrican license i would get the job. That is contracting and government way of doing things.
That is some of the new rules my friend and just like the BMI and medical guidelines they are not budging.
A contractor is required to provide you with a plane ticket home if you decide to demob. If they refuse call any American embassy and tell them that a contractor has abandoned you in a foreign country. The embassy will purchase you a first class ticket home and the contractor will go to federal court over it.
So if they are in Iraq and are offered a job by Fluor what happens then about the SF85? Just curious.Thanks
hey ya all i do have a big problem with dyncorp at the momment, this is about salary issue,i am wondering,is the US Government paying this company or what coz i am not ready to do a volunteer job especially in a war zone like Afghanistan or iraq, i came all the way from my country to try to make ends meet, another big question i have is before i used to work for GCC( Gulf Catering Company) whcich was under Agility of which was also under DYncorp, once Agility lost the contract dyncorp used that as an advantage over us,( before i was a sub-contractor and i was earning more compared to the contractors them selfs) so i was shocked when i joined Dyncorp and they slashed my pay 500 dollar less i was expecting more, now we are in a new year and dyncorp is still jocking with peoples salary, are they forgeting that people have families to feed, and care for, they NEED TO PAY US AS SOON AS POSSIBLE
this one goes to GCC and Agility do you people know that there are locals in CAMP STONE you employed that you havent paid yet, what do you think their families are feeding, also do you know that there are some TCN that have not been paid yet, for the time they were in Kuwait, what are you planning on doing about that issue, THESE TWO COMPANIES ARE JOCKING AND THE PROPER DISCIPLINE,
I work at DI and deal with payroll processes a lot, so I hate to hear about this. Obviously the LOGCAP transition is a huge clusterfuck.
Here is what you need to do: call the Ethics hotline and complain. You WILL be heard, and hopefully they will get you straightened out ASAP.
Company Hotline: hotline@dyn-intl.com
877-396-4685 877-396-4685 or 703-560-1203 703-560-1203
Just a heads up out there to avoid AECOM. A mechanic friend of mine just demobed after working in Kandahar for a couple of months, saying that the living conditions in KAF were the worst he’d seen in three years of overseas contracting (even the AECOM Safety rep refuses to enter the main tent because he knows if he did so he’d have to condemn it), plus multiple other transgressions that make KBR senior management look like benevolent geniuses in comparison. Anyway, AECOM is holding his last check for “recruitment expenses”! No flight home, on his own in Dubai, nightmare. STAY AWAY FROM AECOM!
Been working 2 mos. Living conditions are bad.
Meals have to be taken w/TCN’s because they cannot be left alone. Was promised a container and still live in a tent. They build Camp Hicks and build it on the riverbed and it got flooded
and devastated by incoming.
g
Camp Hicks if the Dyncorp Camp at Kandahar. HQ for Dyncorp LOGCAP IV in Afghanistan. I heard they were taking regular Indirect Fire (IDF) and there was a recent flood in the Camp. Didn’t know they built the camp on a riverbed. Didn’t really think that through did they!! I supposed they billed the taxpayer for building the camp and now will bill the taxpayer for repairing the camp! Now there is some fraud for you!
And not only do you live in a tent. Aren’t 100′s of you crammed into a tent with TCN’s. Bunk beds almost touching. Send me pics. What is the maximum occupancy for this tent. Has the Fire Marshall been contacted?
Yep Sparky that is true for both Dyncorp and Fluor living in tents bunk bed to bunk bed. Building a tent in a river bed? I believe they told you that it a hostile situation you are living in. Who ever decided to build the camp in the riverbed well that is a first. I believe client decideds where they will build there camps. G it is going to be some rough living for awhile. The last Dyncorp recruiter told me it was going to be rough living so any promise of a container is going to be awhile down the road bud. On start ups everyone lives together both Expats and TCN’s and eat together. I guess your recruiter duped you. You can always quit if they did not give you what they promised but i think if you read your contract they said the living would be in a tent and very rough living.
Start up?? What the hell are you talking about. We have been in Afghanistan for almost 10 years. Just because a new contractor comes in doesn’t mean the previous contractor burns the housing and everyone has to start over. I know there is a surge on, but come on.
What I will say is ALL recruiters seem to lie.
Yes we have been in Afghanistan for almost 10 years. Unfortunately there are a couple of factors here.
1. Neither of the winning TO contractors has been there – so for them it is a start up.
2. The Gov’t is building a huge number of new FOB’s which has been the emphasis on the new task orders. – Again new locations equal – start up.
3. Subcontracts – such as man camp facilities that were contracted by one subcontractor do not transfer to another contractor that contractor is responsible for their own procurements. This is going to be an issue in LCIV as most of the man camps for LCIII were subcontracted as a whole – and the hooches and facilities were not purchased by the government.
Start up is rought – Ksniper it sounds like you were in Kosovo during the start up and building of Bondsteel. Did you have the pleasure of sleeping in one of the bombed out buildings with buckets in the corner for sanitation facilities. Hey it was what it was – which could account for why Bondsteel was built in 90 days.
That’s not necessarily true. If it has a GP (Government Property) number on it it belongs to the government. Such as any trailer type or containerized housing units. LOGCAP is a cost reimbursable contract. The contractor owns very little in Iraq and Afghanistan. When the Contractor loses the contract they don’t just take their housing units and go home.
Wrong site sir, BRS did not leave in bomb out building in Kosovo. That was bosnia sir get your facts straigt, no sir i lived in a office building actually in a hallway, walked through knee high snow drifts to shower and use the toliet. Bondsteel was built in 90 days because the trusses were built for the seahuts in macedonia and shipped north and it was done in 90 days military wanted out of the tents and they got what they paid for and they are still standing to this day. Now Sail if you were over here you would know who live in what or the conditions and not reading what you know on this website. As you wrote about the containers again misinformation, they are purchased by the contractors and are signed over to the military once installed and has passed inspection. A contractor is hired to managed the man camps once a contractor changes over they take possession of what they are charged with providing support for. Please sir get your facts straight unless you are providing BS to get the straight scoop
Actually I was over there – for 8 years. I was in Bosnia, Kosovo (still havet the red clay from slogging from the man camp to the office building in Farasi in some jeans) and oh by the way even the Happy Camp in Macedonia.
Since you were/are not apparently in procurement I will assume that you were not privy as to how each and everything on the contract was procured. I on the other hand actually was and do know how things were procured. So before you call some one a LIAR make sure you have your facts correct! I will bet that my knowledge of the actual contract and the company are more accurate than yours.
As for the containers and other property. Yes if they have a government property tag they do belong to the government.
However, I know for a fact that early in 2005 KBR started SUBCONTRACTING on a lease basis man camps and facilities which included the set up of the camps. They were then operated by KBR. I signed the subcontracts!
LOL, i guess after you got busted for living in bomb out building in Kosovo you decided to post the correct information. I never said you were liar i said you were posting misinformation. I guess you sure knew more that me after you corrected the information you posted. Mancamp to the offices at the TMP hold on dude, those areas was rocked from the mancamp to the gate in the warehouse area, wha mall exist there now and then road from gate of the warehouse area was paved and into the back gate of the TMP yeah right you have alot of information all right and there was no red clay in ferizaj HQ area, that was on bondsteel. Get your information straight, the warehouse area was concrete remember and it also had a wood shop. Please sail get on to something else and stop the BS if you signed contracts you would either on still be there or another project.
I had not heard about the flooding, but yes they are taking rocket hits, sometimes as many as 10 a week. Only about 10% of the time do they explode, so that’s a good thing, but a guy was in the showers when one came through the wall, and he was badly burned and lost his thumb.
I thought that times when black people had to sit on the back of the bus were over.
You are discussed to eat with TCN, can’t sleep where they sleep. Every mistake made is blamed on TCNs.
What kind of people are you?
P.S. Electrocution is the fifth leading cause of occupational injury death in the United States. Shame on TCNs.
I am fairly certain you are not fully familiar with the issues in Iraq or Afghanistan or you wouldn’t be making this statement. No need to lecture me on electrocution I am an electrician.
I am a TCN and I was working in Afghanistan for 2 years! Used to travel to every FOB in the south and trust me i have seen a lot of so called ” CERTIFIED” work. Also have seen a lot of those “CERTIFIED “electricians who dont know anything but wiring. And please stop all those bullshit talks about eating or sleaping togeather with the TCN’s! At least we take a shower BEFORE we go to bed after working for 12 hours, not the next morning!
When I refer to bunking with TCN’s in Afghanistan I am referring to “unvetted” subcontractors from India, Pakistan, Napal etc. Not direct hire TCN’s from Macedonia.
Wow!!!! well who would think that knowing AECOM is the parent company for CSA Kuwait……
what about dyncorp not paying its employees the hazard allowance
It is ILLEGAL for a company to hire you from the U.S. and NOT return you to the nearest U.S. Port of entry. This is called the “Shangai Law.” A company is responsible get you back to U.S. soil, not your hometown where they hired you, but only to U.S. soil. If they won’t fly you, make sure you save all of your travel expenses and contact an attorney asap on this.
hello,
Does anyone have any insight to how long it takes fluor to even look at your sf85, it has been month and a half.. i do know the FBI check takes time but why so long with fluor??
Thanks..
I am writing this letter about concerns with this Transition from KBR to Fluor.
You have a site lead at FOB Fenty in Jalalabad. His name is Brian Drennen. Prior to this transition he was the old site lead for KBR. He is his old self once more. He went around while as a Fluor employee and stating to KBR individuals that when they will be wearing the blue lanyard that they will not be doing things as usual. He was stating this in a derogatory manner. Also prior to this transition he had the KBR Carpentry shop make him a piece of furniture for his room. This was done without a work order. Fluor requires all work to be done with a work order. This falls under Fraud, waste and abuse!
I will segue to 1st phase people complaining about his language to people. He calls people “mother fuckers” and noting was done about this by HR.
He was over at Camp Duffman and told two of us that we could not eat in their DFAC. DFAC is a dining facility. Our LOA states that we have DFAC privileges. He then sat down and ate there where we were told we could not.
He is also having KBR personnel order Fluor people around after the transition. These people are his friends.
We all were told by the HR transition team that there would be no changes or promotions in jobs. All moves would be “lateral ones.” There is a Bosnian named Saed. He had a Fluor offer for a plumber and he took it back in November. Then at the last minute this month he was placed on the “stay behind team”. Now he is boasting that he will be a Plumbing Foreman on new construction after all the ACLs are completed. Where is the honesty and ethics Fluor talks about? A position was created for him.
The end result of this Transition is that the “old boy network” is alive and well. It is only a matter of time before someone gets tired of the KBR rules employed by Drennen and company. As a matter of fact one may send a email about the furniture as there are many witnesses and participants with his furniture being built without a work order. (dodig@army.mil/hotline) One may also contact his congressman and then there is the protection of the Whistleblower Act about retaliation. One may also have papers served on Fluor’s registered agent in their home state and sue because of harassment by Drennen and company. If one subpoeanas many Fluor people to go back to the US how will that affect the mission? In the last several years Congress and the courts have given contract workers more rights along with no more forced arbitration clauses that companies can hide behind.
Why is Drennen letting KBR people have Fluor people be subservient to KBR? One can understand the need to cut back the R and Rs to 15 days from 21 possible ones. What one cannot understand is the fact that Fluor HR knew about this and did not share this information prior to the transition. That is a KBR tactic. Is this the beginning of the kinfolk, brothers and relatives environment with Fluor since Stanski is in charge or will Fluor get a handle on things and nip this in the bud? Will Fluor get a tarnished reputation as KBR did or will it actually stop workplace harassment and the old boy network and have HR start speaking the truth about things?
If things do not change for the better with honesty, ethics, etc complaints will be filed and not through the company since it appears complaining has not done any good so far. Besides Drennen there is also one Roland Yarborough that has had multiple complaints and nothing was done. Somehow he lost his passport and shot records but people believe that they were taken and burnt because of a lack of action on Fluor’s part. He had to go to Kuwait to get a new passport.
What will Daddy Fluor do now is the question since he was informed about the transition and some unethical practices?
Plumbing Foreman without IAPMO Certification… More unskilled foreign labor, so what happened to the trade test requirements for all the new hires? Go ask him if knows how to snake a toilet.
Not only that, all are hired as plumbers, (break more than they fix) cannot speak english, no drivers license, no plumbers license and the EX PAC’s have to taxi them three times to the chow line back and forth on their time, and literaterily baby sit them, to sick call and is this not Trafficing. They do not have badges, security clearances and in so , we have to do their jobs because they cannot go in certain areas are basically anywhere without a badge and are hindering the progress of the SOILDERS.
gg
Where is the government in on all this. All DI is hiring is foreigners with American money. WOW
does anyone of our senators know this. Why not hire americans, has anyone asked OBAMA what percentages our contracts reqire of foreigners hired.They bring foreigners all he way to AMerica to hire and train them, all they have to do is look outside their corporate & government offices.
gg
Next it will the plumbers connecting the electrical grounding and reparing the fire suppresion hoods in the DFAC,(I forgot there aren’t any) to the water heaters and just like in Iraq. More deaths more lawsuits.
Hire Qualified IAMPO Americans only and kick these guys along with the others who didn’t qualify back to the DFAC.
Unfortunately – you hit the nail on the head. Way back in 2005 the direction came down from the US Government for the contractor to hire more TCN’s and HCN’s and REDUCE the number of Expats in the interest of saving money. This direction was provided in writing to the contractors.
The estimates that are submitted and accepted by the Government detail by position who will be an expat and who will be a foreign national and the cost for each.
The winning contactor has historically been the one who is the least expensive technically acceptable. Therefore the more TCN/HCN’s bid the cheaper the bid.
Trust me the Government is well aware of the mix of staffing on all LC task orders. Because it is submitted in excruciating detail.
Part of the problem comes in as you point out when those commands in the field are not part of the decission making process and thus will not let the TCN/HCN’s do the work.
I have always had a problem with this – as I believe that since we are spending my tax dollars – the jobs should go to people who will actually be spending the money in the US and helping our ecconomy.
I don’t have as big a problem with hiring and training HCN’s that are native to the country so that they can learn skills to imporve their lives.
I agree with the HCN concept completely as long as it doesn’t breach security or quality of life issues. I was there in Kandahar when the first HCN’s came to work. The TCN’s were represented as well but not in the numbers that outweighed the Ex-pats. I will say several of the Balkan mini-me’s were well versed in their duties but not all.
Several Ex-pats I worked in the past didn’t know jack and weren’t qualified in their trades. Everyone was an expert and wanted to be the boss of something. Things did improve as time went on but after a 100,000 ex-pats came and gone, they have hit bottom and have refused to hire outside of their standard recruiting districts of Texas and Louisiana for the most part.
Thanks Baboo – agree – actually worked in the Balkans with some of the same local people that went to LCIII as TCN’s. Some had great education and were hard workers, learned fast and had really good work ethics. Others – well a lot like some people here who think that they are owed a lot for a little.
I think part of the problem with the Expat recruitment is just numbers now – can’t find people who are actually willing to go get shot at for the money and the living conditions.
Also have found that for those that really know what they are doing the salaries in the US are catching up with those for the contracts and it is somewhat safer here than there.
May disagree that they are refusing to hire outside of TX and LA after all Ms Sparky is from the west coast. I just think that the caliber of those applying just has gone down over time. Besides – Fluor is in South Carolina so they should have a new batch from somewhere.
” The problem is manifested intensively.”
They tell me I am expendedable, that they can hire, and probally can, 10 to 15 foreigners with what they pay me.” True
The quality is different. No licensed training, different living conditions.
For example, not only do they have to house 15 more individuals, but they have to feed them and make sure they have enought sewer waste lines for the shit they create. Not only do they do the above but also, take them to the laundry , and excort them everywhere (taxi) because they cannot seem to get clearances to get into the restricted areas.(this is another area) Their are more foreigners in the mess hall than soliders. They should open Taxi positions.
DI is now housing 24 per tent (fire violation)
and cramming them like sardines. Fine planning.
Who is running this circus.
Now in order not to pay the taxi ex pacs to excort on gove. time, they bring the food to the shop.The plumbing shop where they fix the shit commodes, and the carriers don’t have a health certificate.
No place to wash, no sanitation, what are this idiots thinking about, and where is the government. Now the locals are getting into the eating with the TCN’s, and expacts at the Plumbing shop, free. Miss appropriation of funds from some overpaid admin.
They are drowing with inadequate discuision,
and shooting from the hip. However, Camp Hicks
has pink trash cans.?????????
I suggest they give the contract to Flour or back to KBR, at least they had adequate housing.
What are the names of the Class Action lawsuits of Halliburton KBR on behalf of employess 2003 through 2007?
All of us should be aquire overtime pay and burn-pit are only two.
The SF85 once completed correctly and sumbitted to FBI seems to take 50-120 days no one knows for sure. I wil tell you, they are checking references you list on application. The FBI check, the delay is not with Fluor but with the FBI, No one seems to know how long it takes, i have no idea either, im waiting approval to get the CAC card then deply to A stan , if LOGACPIV is not V …I guess it takes time, that no one expected, KBR never did any of thease checks, and the SF85 i filled out for KBR would not pass for Fluor, so dot your I’ s cross your T’sand hope for the best.
The FBI check will be different with every person. If your information is not accurate or incomplete it will take longer. If your references have moved or former employers are no longer in business. It will take longer. If you have lived in 20 different States/counties as apposed to someone who has lived in the same place for the last 10 years it will take longer to complete. There is no standard time frame for these back ground checks to be completed. I have been through it many times.
If you think Fluor is all that great think again. At the town hall meetings we were shown during a presentation that there is a 401K, short term disability ins; holiday pay, 21 days RnR. That is for level 1 employees we are level 2. Janice the HR lead for transition also said no policy on clothing. Now there is and we must wear long pants to the gym. There is no sign on bonus it is a sign on allowance.One must wait to see how close the pay is to what they have said. By the way, the contract states a 70 hour work week so eventually we will see those hours cut back I presume. Also our pay as well.Their HR team also said all moves will be “lateral ones”. Hmmm? really? Not so. The buddy system is alive and well. Brian Drennen is letting George Weibush order Fluor people around . Weibush is still KBR, Hmmm? I am about to write to Fluor to see if they will do anything but I seriously doubt it. These people are acting with impungnity and it shows.
Rabbit aren’t they still in transition? Well sir i know you guys who thought jumping to fluor will be like the second coming but of course wrong answer. The grass is not always greener on the other side. If the portion the George is giving fluor direction to has not transition then well stop crying. You have a choice either voice your compliant or put it in writing to Fluor. They are getting CARS from the DCMA like flies in the DFAC. They don’t care as long as it is not KBR the government does not give a shit. The soliders is who are suffering from this crap. Iam so glad i did not jump.
I’ll second that brother. For those jumping ship from KBR, I can only say that they are the best of the worst. This is government contracting and this is how it is. Period. This work is not cut out for everyone and I would tell you that Fluor and DynCorp are not capable of doing the kind of job KBR did. I worked in Iraq KBR Food Service for four years and none of these other companies will ever be able to do the job KBR did. I am not a flag waver of KBR, but they did a great job, considering the start up environment of a war. Yes, they should have had their shit together after a couple of years, but it is a war zone. Everything I read and hear from friends in Afghanistan (which sucks to work in anyway) say that the DFAC’s are horrible, including KBR because the Americans are doing the work, not the TCN’s. These other companies don’t pay the way they say they will and screw you around. If you want to work in LOGCAP environments, then get used to this crap that goes on. Nothing will ever change. Ksniper, I concur, unfortunately it is the Marines, Soldiers and Airmen that are suffering at the ineptitude of the DCAA and Congress. I did hear Gates say something last year about no more cost plus contracts, and that is a good thing, but I don’t know enough to speak about that. All be safe over there, make your money, save it and come home. I have been home for less than two months and just landed a killer job. Things are getting better here… Not to mention, no more big voice or mortars makes life a lot better…
what exactly is a “sign on allowance” and how does it differ from a bonus? And what problem do you have with Fluor besides these things you think they misled you about? Just curious. 70 hours, is that 7-10′s?
Glad to know. My husband is at KAF with Dyncorp where the LA redneck mafia is alive and well! He is coming home to go back with Flour. Now Im concerned that its not any better. He was in Iraq 2008-09 with KBR. Are any of these companies organized, true to their word and NOT run on the ‘buddy’ system??
It would appear not. The problem that Fluor and Dyncorp have is they hired KBR’s rejects. Long time Fluor employees refer to their own LOGCAP IV contract as KBR East. Dyncorp skimmed the manager gene pool when they hired KBR rejects for LOGCAP IV. Dyncorp needs to throw a little bleach the pool and start over. Fluor is so infested now I don’t think there is much hope for success. But, I do get less complaints from Fluor new hires than Dyncorp new hires. Fluor is much farther along in the transition than Dyncorp.
Obviously I am not the only one who thinks he was misled. Many of us were. The agreement we signed says nothing about things specifically but it is in a disc they give us sometime after we signed our agreements which was days later. This is where the info is I speak of.There is a difference between a bonus and a allowance. For starters look up up Websters definition. I am talking legally though. Then at all of the town hall meetings we were presented with the Fluor benefits package/options. The problem there is what was presented was to Tier 1 workers. We are Tier 2 workers who get less benefits. We were also told if we are out of theatre over 30 days albeit medical, awol, etc we are terminated. Then there were the statements no change in positions because there are only lateral moves. The reality is this is not so. The last is that the Fluor Area Manager is letting KBR boss Fluor people around in certain situations.
Pardon me for asking. I am curious and wanted to ask you because you are actually someone who knows versus asking someone who is assuming.My husband is in Iraq and we are guessing that this company will soon be taking over his job and I like to stay informed. So please forgive me for bothering you. Thought this is what this site was for.Maybe someone else here will not be so offended by helping.
MW,
Who were you replying to?
rabbit
MW,
I did not want to be mean and if you were offended it is because I am tired. I also forgot to mention that the comms, IT and phones are not like KBR. Many sites blocked. Yahoo email, AOL, Skype,Mssparky, just to name a few. Not only here but also in Greenville as well so it is a corporate thing
No problem. Just looking for acurate info. get some rest and have a good rest of the day
Like i said the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. If you are tired then you do have other choices. i don’t think Deb can raise cane in DC because you cannot access what you want on the internet nor like kbr if you are out of the country more than 30 days then you are terminated that is the same policy is KBR. I think sir you signed up for this and if they changed the policy on you make sure you read the contract close the next time you have to sign if you are a Tier 2 and the documentation says Tier 1 ask questions. Again going to another company is not always as rosy as before. Remember you said Brian is allowing KBR leaders to direct fluor folks well that is transition.
Who are the recruiters for fluor,Dyncorp? When will the transition be over so that others can be hired on?
Must talk about FBI checks-how about those waiting for calls from the two and have active FBI clearance presnetly?
Who are the Fluor and Dyncorp recruiters? When will the transition be over and all others fired?
What is the reason those with FBI active clearances being held up from employment.
The transition part of the task orders has been extended to April for Fluor and June for Dyncorp. The transition period for both TO’s has been extended several times.
Unfortunately the contracts require that each contractor conduct the background checks and clearances. Although after they are done your CAC cards can be transfered – the clearances and background checks can not. The background checks include not only the federal but state and local.
I know it is frustrating and could probably be done more easily – but it is up to the individual contractors to establish their procedures. It is not like someone buying a company and then just coming in and changing the name.
Both companies are recruiting their expats via the US Dyn in Tx and Fluor in SC. They have various subcontract labor brokers who are recruiting TCN’s and Subcontract employees.
So are you saying that this is why the transition continues to be put off month after month? Thanks for the info
Miss Sparky, it probably safe to assume most of these contractors will have to complete SF85 security clearance for non-sensitive positions with 99% of them would not qualifying under SF86 form guidelines.
SF85 is not a security clearance, it is a trust isssue for non sensitive positions. SF86 is the document submitted for a request for a security clearance. You may be cleared for SF86 and recieve a interium clearance and the process for the clearance can take up to a year. SF85 should not take that long, but due to the mass of SF85 submitted all at once i believe has bogged down the system.
There is a real easy way to tell the difference. If you are employed by the off shore company – you are not getting a security clearance.
Actually, very few of the positions actually require a security clearance.
QUESTION? I HAVE COMPLETED MY PAPERWORK (E-QIP,SF86,ETC) FOR MY TSSC ABOUT 5 MONTHS AGO…IS THIS TRANSFERABLE EVEN THOUGH I MAY NOT WORK WITH THE COMPANY THAT STARTED THE PROCESS? FILL ME IN
That’s a good question. Do you know if they are still working on it. Have they contacted your references, neighbors etc? I do know your Top Secret is good for one year after you end your employment with the contractor who requested it. After that you have to start over.
Security clearances are transferable once they have been granted – that said – the contract and position that you are assigned to will dictate at what level the clearance will be transfered.
For example if you are currently on a contract and in a position that requires a TS and you transfer to a contract that only requires and carries a requirement for a Secret – your clearance will most likely be downgraded to a Secret.
If your clearance has not yet been granted you will have to start over with the new contractor if the clearance is required.
His question was….will his security clearance continue to be processed now that he is no longer going to work for the company who sponsored it. And when you say ALL security clearance are transferable I am assuming you are just referring to DoD/DoS clearances.
Actually, I stated that Security Clearances are transferable – I did not state ALL. I assumed – which admittedly could be wrong – that he was discussing a DOD clearance. That would be yes – DOD/DOS – DOE is a whole other world that frankly I don’t really want to know anything about Q clearances. And I have no familiarity with any other types of clearances.
You will see that I stated at the end of the post that if the clearance had not yet been granted – the process would have to be started all over again.
Sorry for any confussion
Yes they are..they meet with my neighbors back in oct,and I received an email informing me that they are still waiting to hear from the State Dept….they stated they were just staying in touch…that was about 60 days ago….I was interviewed in Oct by the SD investigater 4 hrs man….crazy!
And just to clear things up….I must get the TSSC first b4 they can place me in any position….understand? I would assume that things are going smoothly due to the fact that they spend money on me b4 placing me in a position….PAE Moscow….you know about them? a lockheed martin co
The only complaints I’ve heard about PAE Moscow is the housing units are quite a ways from the Embassy and the commute sucks. But that may have changed.
In reference to an SF86:
If you have received your clearance with one company and leave, you have a (2) year automatic re-activation period if required and hired by another employer.
If not used within the (2) year period, and it is required by your new employer, you will have to provide current updates to your file which is still on the government data base system.
If you are currently going through a screening process after submission and elect to hire on with another firm before the process is completed, this could damage your ability to secure your clearance.
You should have been granted a temporary clearance until it has been completed. You do have to have a sponsor in order to apply for one and keep it active.
If you’re in limbo and decided to go somewhere else during the process, I assume you have to start the process over.
Ksniper,
Technically speaking, you are correct regarding SF85 and SF86. KBR requires the SF86 for Site Managers and Engineers. I’m sure other some other positions might require them as well.
Most AFCAP positions require the SF86. Those don’t pass those like chicken and pasta at the DFAC.
as well as Security managers and personnel who process clearance request and IT managers as well. I was speaking of LOGCAP not AFCAP. I heard they were coming to Tallil Airbase but Washington Group has not shown up yet? They have alot of TCN’s doing work not sure if they had to fill out the SF86
Non-US citizens
Can non-US citizens obtain security clearances?
No. Non-US citizens can not obtain a security clearance; however, they may be granted a Limited Access Authorization (LAA). LAAs are grant in those rare circumstances where the non-US citizen possesses unique or unusual skill or expertise that is urgently needed to support a specific US Government contract
involving access to specified classified information (no higher than Secret), and a cleared or clearable US citizen is not readily available.
DynCorp spent as much as $300,000 to “expedite the issuance of a limited number of visas and licenses from foreign government agencies,” which may have violated the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704498804574561961591658796.html
Wow, I didn’t know that’s why he got canned.
To my knowledge the AFCAP awards have not been granted yet. Several AFCAP contractors have posted contingency-based employment opportunities.
I think you might want to recheck your info Boo, Washington Group got the award on Tallil and not sure about Balad.
Part of the reason that AFCAP has more stringent requirements is that the Air Force has more stringent requirements for access to AF systems on computers and required everyone who is going to be given access a special background investifation.
Below is the requirement from the contract
L003 ACCESS TO AIR FORCE COMPUTER SYSTEMS
If performance under this contract will require access to Air Force computer systems (stand alone or networked), compliance with Air Force Instruction (AFI) 33-119 and Air Force Systems Security Instruction (AFSSI) 5027 is mandatory. It should be noted that such access requires, at a minimum, a National Agency Check or Entrance National Agency Check in accordance with DoD 5200.2-R, Personal Security Program.
To Sail: That background check is an SF86 and it’s not warm and fuzzy.
To Ksniper: I wonder what type of beef their using at Taco Bell over there in your parts…if your in Iraq at Tallil?
Not sure about the beef, i don’t eat Taco Bell.
Please don’t flame me, I burn easily
I just wanted to mention that my hubby is working as a mechanic for AECOM, has been in country about two weeks and is VERY happy.
He did say Afghanistan is more of a hole than Iraq but he’s making more than he was with KBR (by more than 25%), they paid for his pre-employment physical, dental, ect., they gave him coveralls, and even boots I believe.
Processing time in Texas was 2 days vs. 2 weeks w/KBR. We spent a lot of money to get him out the door with KBR and nothing with AECOM.
He also said there was AECOM brass travelling with them to Dubai and on to Afghanistan, and they were down to earth and mingling with the guys. KBR’s higher ups don’t exactly have that kind of reputation, and in fact one of the main reasons my hubby demobed was his loathing of many of the KBR supervisors and their arrogance, laziness and lack of ability.
Also, the insurance seems better, granted we haven’t used it yet, and for the family it’s under $250/mo including vision and dental that is mostly 80/20.
He hated working for KBR and dmobed after two months. I did notice in his AECOM contract that if you demob early, it states that you have to cover “mobilization costs”. To me, that could mean everything; flights, hotels, meals, the $500 (not an advance) they give in Fort Worth (long before you are getting on the plane to Dubai), plus what they spent on your physical, dental, ect. It does not say you have to pay all back when you demob though. I’m guessing they take it out of your pay? Sounds like it may be a moot point from the other posts anyway, I just wanted to point out that it sounds like it’s more than just flight home cost.
AECOM did almost all of the paperwork ahead of time via email and fax so we had a copy of his contract to look over for three days before he signed it, and he read every word.
I’m not discounting the other’s posts about AECOM, but wanted to offer another opinion.
If things were worse than he expected in any way, he’d be on his way home. We have four kids, one of whom is disabled, and my hubby doesn’t sugar coat things to make me happy or keep me from worrying. We’ve been together way too long for that kind of thing and I’d call him out on it right away. I can honestly say he’s 100% happy with his living and working conditions.
All in all, AECOM has been far, far, far better than KBR. But of course, it’s only been two weeks…
I am very glad he and you are happy with this new job with Aecom. Will you please keep us posted so other might have another perspective.
Boots are good to walk through what others have left behind.
I would like to be contacted by a Fluor Representative.
I was a shoplead carpenter with KBR until September 2009, when I was demoted and which time I was told by a Fluor Representative that I would be called back within six months, as of yet I have not heard from anyone.
I have friends that are now with Fluor and they have told me “there is plenty of work” and so I have sent my resume to Fluor on two different occassions and still nothing has happened.
I would really like a chance to be part of the Fluor Team and work in Afghanastan or any other place that my skill would be of use. If there is a reason why I have not been recalled, I would appreciate someone notifing me. Thank you.
Manuel,
I don’t know if this is the forum for you to be soliciting an inquiry into employment. You may want to go to LOGMASTERS site or to Indeed KBR for info. Were you demoted or demobed? I am guessing you were demobed and Fluor has all those records of previous employees. Something to think about as you apply
Wow…there is so much information to be had, it’s really tough to process it all. I came within a signature of working for KBR, in Afghanistan, last year. I had said if I had a bad vibe, I’d decline. My recruiter dropped the ball on me, and I did just that. I realize you can’t expect the living conditions to be ideal, but stacked like sardines, terrible sanitation..etc. Is it really that bad? Would waiting 6 months, or a year, possibly fix the problem? can anyone say that working for Fluor is a good idea? How bout KBR or Dyncorp?
I think a lot of us considering this route, would appreciate some easy answers, if there are any to be had. Or, maybe direct us to a place where this is laid out in a little more easy way to understand. I know what opinions are like, just looking for some. Thanks for all the thoughts.. Scott
Ms. Sparky, I am a Bagram reader, there is no space, tents, b-huts that will be able to house the transition between KBR and Fluor. This is poor planning on Fluor as the incumbent of this Contract, and Fluor Management does not care about their own employees. Fluor employees are treated like animals in a cage with living, working and transportation environment. Does anyone care out there how their family, friends and love ones are be treated by Fluor in Afghanistan?
For those who think the transition is a great thing are probably focusing just on the money and the 21 days of r and r. Let me adress a couple of other points. A DFAC worker injured her back in the DFAC performing her duties. She is going home! She is also getting ZEROS while waiting to go home or so she says. When and if she gets better she can reapply with Fluor. She will have to deal with the insurance company (AIG? UGGGH) to get compensation. We all know how AIG is about their claim service.
Some things do not change of course. Like letting the TCNs receive mail such as Igor Ivanoski and others recently have done. I bring this name up because he is not a US Passport holder. These TCNs know that it is just lip service that they are not to receive mail here at JAF but order items anyway. The people at billeting allow this as well. They do not wish to make waves.
Why is this? We do not see many ex-pats arriving but do see many TCNs arriving here and going to the FOBs. Many fear losing their jobs.
The only changes here are the lanyards and the pay increase and lower cost insurance and no holiday or sick pay.
Ears
I am confussed about this whole thing with the TCN’s and the mail. The contract states the following”
“As stated in DFAR 252.225-7040, the contractor is responsible for providing all support to its employees (including subcontractor employees) unless otherwise stated. However, the government at its discretion may provide to contractor employees deployed in the theater of operations the equivalent field living conditions, subsistence, emergency medical and dental care, sanitary facilities, mail delivery, laundry service, and other available support afforded to government employees and military personnel in the theater of operations.
The government at its discretion may, consistent with the terms and conditions of the contract, provide to contractor employees (UScitizens only) deployed in the theater of operations; morale, welfare, and recreation services commensurate with that provided to
Department of Defense civilians and military personnel deployed in the theater of operations.”
The only stipulation requiring a person to be a US Citizen to receive these benefit is for the MWR participation – so technically non US Citizens can not use the Gyms.
To my knowledge the Government has not stated that Only US Citizens can receive mail through the APO (ie US Mail Service). Which by the way they are paying for if they are having something shipped to them – it is not free.
Since the employees address is the same as an having an address in the US (the APO is considered the city) – and there is no Iraqi/Afghanistani mail service to the bases – how would you expect these people to otherwise communicate by mail. I believe that denying a person the ability to communicate would bring up a few TIP red flags.
Is it your contention that if these people actually lived in the US – they could not have their mail delivered by the US Postal Services or purchase US Postal Service services – it is the same thing?
I think you need to check with your Contract Administrator – to verify that the Government has actually stated in WRITING that direct hire TCN’s can not use the US Mail.
Fluor has AIG insurance?
MW
Almost Everyone has AIG for their DBA – the Government negotiated a specific rate with them and had them agree not to turn down any company who applied for the DBA.
AIG is the primary insurance company who administers the Defense Base Act (DBA) insurance program. If you are injured or killed this is who you have to deal with for disability or death benefits. The DBA has nothing to do with Fluor’s or any other contractors regular insurance. It’s different.
The folks at Defense Base Act Compensation Blog are experts on DBA. That is why I have steered clear trying to learn it. They are more than happy to answer questions. http://defensebaseactcomp.wordpress.com/
All I know about AIG as far as DBA goes. They are doing anything and everything to not pay people.
oh okay, understood thanks.
The APO service has been off limits to TCN’s for over a year in Iraq. Expats order for some of them, but it arrives under the expat’s name. This directive came down from the client and was widely distributed throughout KBR shops, APO’s and it was effective. BTW, the civilian carriers who shuffle the mail have been hit with addition freight fees from the Iraq gov, which raises the cost to US taxpayers too have the pony express shipped.
Rock
Thanks for the info. Can’t believe that there has not been a general uprising from the TCN’s.
Yea the Governments of Iraq and Afghanistan have wised up on the make money through tax thing. The Afghanistan Gov’t is attempting to charge the contractors a Sales Tax on the money they get paid on their Afghanistan task orders. Holding up things like Visa processing until the contractors fork over the money.
Karzai wants his cut before the rest of the regional governors can skim off the rest.
Reading and listening to all of the hype – I get a little concerned. I have been recruited and finished up with both DynCorp and ITT/Flour and have had nothing but praise for both. They have processed everything on time ie: clearance was finished within 2 weeks after submitting. Recruiters have been great and very respectful to me and have, believe it or not, been on a first name basis. ITT has been super to me. Maybe it’s because I carry a gun. I going over for Police Mentoring/Advising and/or Force Protection Team so they are all armed positions. Maybe they respect the gun toting people more. But, we are all Americans and I really get concerned if some of my fellow Americans are being treated poorly. Hope to see some of you folks over there. Semper Fi……PS: the tent/cot thing don’t bother this Marine…Lol
I worked for KBR from 2003 until the transition in 2010. I enjoyed working for KBR. I have been on the RIO project, with the Middle East Region Office and then on to the LOGCAP III in Iraq. I have been on several bases all over Iraq and have worked with both expats, TCNs and HCNs. KBR had it’s own problems and had some real “Winners” running the show sometimes. I was lucky that on all the projects I worked on, I had good leaders running the show. Although there were still some bad apples in the mix and some of them were eventually caught and are now serving time or at least disgraced. The LOGCAP project was a different animal. I’m not sure where their leaders came from but I for one was not impressed(not that anyone asked my opinon).
I did however want to stay KBR because I felt, and still do, they are best at what needs to be done over here. I was in Afghanistan during the transition and applied for a KBR position in Iraq, the competition was tough because there were alot of KBR folks who did not want to transition to Fluor. So I waited until the very last day to transition. I have not given up my red lanyard though. Maybe one of these days I can wear it again.
My son has been working in Iraq since 2004. He has applied to positions every month with no response. He is a laundry supervisor? Do you know how he can get over there?