Since this Reduction In Force (RIF) has started I’ll bet I’ve received dozens of emails from Iraq and Afghanistan about foremen and general foreman being given the ultimatum of:
- Take a cut in pay and do the same job for less money or
- “Chicken or Pasta” (go home)
WTF!!! More threats and coercion? What the hell happened to the contract they signed. Every time KBR gets sued for uplift, overtime or some other violation of US Labor Law, they automatically revert to “You signed a contract!”
I want to make the sure the DoD knows how KBR is treating the Americans who actually do the work and who have tried to take care of our troops throughout the years. Despite the lack of tools, material and quality management.
If KBR wants to shed some dead weight, get rid of the top 20 KBR managers in Iraq. I doubt seriously the client would notice much of a difference and I’ll bet productivity and moral would increase tremendously.
I feel kind of bad for those KBR employees who stuck by KBR through thick and thin and now KBR is showing their appreciation by treating them like crap. KBR your true colors are showing.
It’s time to change some labor laws where overseas US Government work is concerned. Obviously the DoD has NO control of any kind over it’s contractors.
Ms Sparky
Wonder if the Top 5 are taking cut in pay?
Ms Sparky’s Response:
Not likely….you are tooooo funny!
i have not heard of any paycuts, just rumors and everyone guessing, how they are evaluated without an evaluation process, I have been around 4 plus years and never ever had any job performance review or feedback, so i wander how this will work..need i even ask, I dont see lots going to “the other” contractor, seems they all compete and only cost they can control or cut is labor, ex pat vrs, TCN, I am not sure what gonna happen everyone is being so transparent, and covering there backside, new ideas, the idea FAIRY SUDDENLY ARRIVED ON SITE, we still await the RIF notices, so far safe but, packed and ready to go
Ms Sparky’s Response:
Good for you. Better prepared than having to pay someone to pack your stuff and send it home before billeting can go through it.
Keep us posted.
It seems to me that this cost plus contract is similiar to how the government is run. If you try to save money in the gov’t budget they cut your next years budget. It is no wonder that since KBR and Logcap is being run by prior military, especially that reitired General, it is so screwed up. The only thing they care about is THEIR pay and no one else. That General is is his latter 70′s, did you know this?
wondering willy said,on June 4th, 2009 at 10:16 pm — …That General is is his latter 70’s, did you know this?…
This is also his 2nd time around on the project, allegedly he was asked to tender his resignation the 1st time around. Wonder what he did to be asked to leave? Wonder why they hired him back? Perhaps KBR is going green and recycling?
the pay cuts are true. department by department they are giving everyone a chance to take a cut to the next lowest tier or transfer (also taking a cut in pay for most)to afganistan and they are de-mobing craft they feel are not carrying their weight (which means they stand up to management, we all know that)
as to Mr. LaBoa leaving the first time, i believe he was at G6 and told them to suck up all the mortar and rocket hits they were taking and quit their whining. friends i have that worked there at the time say the entire camp went to HR. this is only what i have heard but it should be easy to verify, i was at F2 at the time
Rumor had it for a while that LaBoa and Lust were sent back IN to country because they were calling generals in the field and stirring the pot a bit….
no new of paycut being requested, no new of anything seems Flour, ITT Dyn copr hire, a few ex part to supervise a staff of phillipions, shir lankens and nalplises, all good hard workking, but 800 per mo. and they too shit in high cotton, only one thing to compete on without cost plus..labor costs..go figure..anyway what can i say that has been said, we all deserve better info or flow of info,…but..guess no one wil say no one knows..everyone is coveing ther ass and making up stuff as they go, fo justify there job..jsut a load of….more and more…
During orientation we wre all told that “It is not a contract, it is an agreement.” This means they have no legal obligation to honor it simply because an agreement is not automatically leglally enforceable but a contract is, this also means that the areement mans nothing insofar as us signing it either, funny how escape clauses can become double edged like that.
Jims thoughts said,on June 5th, 2009 at 7:33 pm During orientation we wre all told that “It is not a contract, it is an agreement.”
Does that mean that talking to the press which is part of your “contract” is null and void? I know that they cannot stop you from contacting you elected officials but if they are stating that it is an agreement not a contact, maybe good legal minds could find some wiggle room. KBR is known for being subject matter experts in the “weasle clause” so maybe there are options.
Last I remember, Texas is a right to work state, being such, those “contracts” you sign in Houston are null and void…and such contracts are not enforceable anyway.
….. You got it in one, they are not worth the paper they are written on which is why KBR have not brought legal action against ANYONE who has talked to everyone whether it be the DODIG, DCMA, Elected officials or the press. We all have the Federally supported right to contact anyoe about things we think are wrong and last I knew, fed law overrules KBR policy in every court and as I have asked before, where is the KBR court room based these days?
The AGREEMENT merely states that they are assisting the Government in employing us, they are just funneling the money to us and not much else, everything in there states a lot but means nothing but that goes for us as well as against us as we can walk all over it and laugh and all they can do is dismiss us which is mentione also as a right to work agreement in which any of the 3 parties can cancel the employment offer, The Government, KBR or ourselves. They know they are powerless to do anything other than fire us which is why they threaten so much, like a schoolyard bully who knos they cannot bet everyone so they beat the easy ones in front of everyone else and make sure the other see it and are cowed.
There is only one weaker than the bully, the one who thinks they cannot stand up to such
The contract states that it can be terminated at anytime by any of the parties involved, including the expat. It not a contract per se as it’s more of a liability wavier for KBR.
It’s clearly stated in the ‘contract’ that it does not guarantee any term of employment. You guys ever read what you sign?
Ms Sparky’s Response:
You are correct. It’s not the sending people home that bothers me. KBR is a job not a career. It’s the “do the same job for less money or go home” threat that bothers me. And I was never allowed to read the contract until after I signed it. Plus I am not a contract lawyer. I did not understand most of what I read and that’s what KBR banks on. Most believe the contract was written specifically to deceive.
I was given more then enough time to read my contract last year. The language seemed plain and clear. Questions were asked and answered by the class. What KBR doesn’t tell you is that you have about a zillion rights under the defense base worker act or whatever it’s called.
KBR is a worthless war profiteering company in a worthless war that was all about money from start to finish. Having worked along side the troops directly I feel incredibly sorry for those who got killed, wounded and for those who have to put up with the hardships of soldiering in Iraq. I have great respect for the individual soldier and units. But to be honest I lost a great deal of respect for general military leadership. It’s not the same force I worked for as a contractor in the 80’s and 90’s. As you have noticed a common thread in all my postings is that the military ALLOWED this to happen. I chose to work for KBR as did you, I always did the right thing while in Iraq. Some people chose to do the right thing after they had left Iraq that seems to be the easy way out. However I am an American citizen by birth and it is my privilege to call myself one. The way the US Government and Military leadership conducted itself in Iraq is so foul and corrupt it just boggles the mind and upsets me as a taxpayer and citizen. When that is dealt with first companies like KBR will not be able to exist.
Ms Sparky’s Response:
Having rights under the Defense Base Act (DBA) and being able to exercise them is two different things. That is why the AIG (the administrator) is under so much scrutiny right now.
Things have gotten better over the years. Because people have raised. The difference in the contracts and conditions between 2003 and 2009 is unbelievable. Because people stood up and said. YOU CAN’T DO THAT. And they are still standing up. They are saying enough is enough.
David ex KBR:
In the early days there was no time given to employees to review the contract. They (KBR) used the $500.00 cash advance as a carrot to get your signature and load you on the bus. I am guessing the review and classroom questions and answers was implemented after the hearings in December of 2007 when it was disclosed that KBR was not informing employees of what they were signing.
You stated in an earlier post “you guys ever read your contract.” I did read my contract and cited paragraphs to management during after an incident. This was after the managers (country level not site or regional) kept trying to intimidate me by stating “it is in your contract.” When I corrected them and cited the passages in the contract. Their response was “Oh you have actually read your contract.” When I left and they went to shake my hand their palms were literally sweating.
Ms Sparky’s Response:
I had two questions while signing my contract in 2004.
1. They hired me as a Electrical Foreman so I asked “Why does my job description just say electrician?”
Their response: “Don’t worry about that. That’s just a typo. They’ll fix that in country.” LIARS!! That was the first lie.
2. On the last page I asked them who Service Employees International was? “Oh they just take care of our payroll.” LIARS!! That was the second lie.
So whatever questions you asked back then did not necessarily get an honest answer. They just wanted you on that charter from Houston to Dubai.
KBR is a big sick joke!
DO NOT relinquish your CAC card if you demob or are asked to leave.
It is yours and yours alone.
The government knows you have it and you know it has personal information that if found by someone not so up and up, they will read your personal information. We all know it is an important ID card.
For them to tell the government that it was lost or stolen is fraud.
It is a punishible offense for whoever made the policy on down to those who implement it!
All that has to be done is to ask for the military representative who is responsible for issuing the CAC cards.
This will not only get their attention, but will make them nervous. They do not want the military knowing what they are doing and they only want the card so you can’t turn around in the states and come back to work for another contractor.
Ms Sparky’s Response:
Although unproven, there has been some speculation that this is happening. “I’m sorry we can’t issue you a CAC card to go to work for Fluor because you still have one issued when you worked for KBR. We need you to return that.” OMG I would be so freakin’ pissed!! Would this be considered some kind of “industrial sabotage” on KBR’s part? Hmmmm
Like I said before. I don’t believe that KBR is capable of managing anything that requires accountability!
I don’t know if this is the straight poop or not but it’s a little information about CAC cards to mull.
http://www.nextgov.com/nextgov/ng_20081016_9851.php
I would have felt a lot better if the military had issued/collected my CAC card instead of KBR. But the DoD’s heavy reliance on contractors is one of the major problems with LOGCAP III
Ms Sparky’s Response:
Yes it is the straight scoop and yes you are right. The military is contracting everything out.
My point being is KBR is actually supposed to collect your CAC card when you leave.
What about all of the folks that demobed voluntarily or involuntarily due to medical etc.. Lack of good business practices, poor quality “leadership” and organization on KBR’s part probably let a lot of the CAC cards fall through the cracks.
Ms Sparky’s Response:
Like I’ve said before…KBR has proven they are not competent to manage anything that requires accountability.
People, KBR is the sponsor of your CAC,or the Common Access Card. Being the sponsor, they are responsible for it and they have the right, even obligation, to collect the card as you leave the country to demob. Sorry Whoisit?, you are plain wrong and giving misinformation like this could cause an incident – like what happened at BIAP two days ago.
The big problem with CACs is that KBR has screwed up the whole process, as has most contracting companies in Iraq. Go find the story on the CAC audit that happened and made headlines a few months ago. KBR has so many CACs unaccounted for in the states by people who quit while on RR that it wouldnt surprise me if they collect them when you leave on RR and give them back when you return.
Ms Sparky’s Response:
If they do that there will be more lost cards.
The solution is actually kind of simply. Obviously the DoD knows who these people are. I’m sure if they got a letter from the DoD to turn in their CAC card 90% of the people would.
I think it would have been a very good idea if someone from the DoD showed up to give a 20 minute briefing about your rights and responsibilites regarding the CAC card during processing in Houston. Heck, even a DoD video directed at KBR/SEII employees would have done the trick.
Ms Sparky’s Response:
One of the biggest problems is that a huge majority of the people have turned in their CAC cards and KBR lost them.
Ms Sparky’s said:
Although unproven, there has been some speculation that this is happening. “I’m sorry we can’t issue you a CAC card to go to work for Fluor because you still have one issued when you worked for KBR. We need you to return that.” OMG I would be so freakin’ pissed!! Would this be considered some kind of “industrial sabotage” on KBR’s part? Hmmmm
I have heard from many that they are threatened in BIAP to hand over the cards with NO accountability to prove it was handed over to KBR and not just lost somewhere or the EX-PAT would be black listed from working overseas again. I know the overseas community is small enough for the unofficial black list to get around and the reasons why also but such things are a Federal violation of free work practices through the EEOC acts.
The CAC card just being handed over and put in a little unlocked box is not enough, if they are going to issue me a materials receipt for my Kevlar and Helmet then they ae damn sure going to issue one for my CAC card and take the responsibility of it on themselves if they lose it after it is handed in. My name is on it and I am the one who owns it as far as the military is concerned so why ds the DOD not have someone meet the bus when it arrives at BIAP and take the cards from the De-Mobs? Am I being too logical again? My card does not say KBR or SEII anywhere on it and unless there is a paper trail regarding it, I am keeping it until I return to the US and the handing it in on a military base where I know it will be treated right and dealt with as required. KBR do not care about the cards or access, they don’t even care enough to make sure electrical work is done well enough not to kill the troops so why would they bother with controlling access to the bases by treating the CAC cards properly instead of just taking them and not letting anyone know where they end up after we hand them over?
Ms Sparky’s Response:
Black lists are illegal. And KBR is the only contractor that I have heard of that officially threatens to have you blacklisted. Take the news articles with you if the DoD gives you a problem about the CAC card. The DoS doesn’t require a CAC to work at US Embassies. The whole black list think is just another one of KBR’s threats and intimidation tactics.
Good call Jim. There needs to be a letter that says Joe Smith turned in his CAC to KBR, and the employee MUST get a copy of that letter. With KBR’s track record, who can trust them to turn the card in the right way.
Does anyone know the e-mail to the Talk to Guy mailbox so we can send our suggestions to Guy Laboa? I think you can send to it from outside the KBR network and keep it anonymous.
Ms Sparky’s Response:
I think that is a great idea. But KBR will never go for it. When they take it from you at the airport and lose it then the won’t be able to blame you.
I found this too late. I went home on medical and didnt turn in my card for several months. I just returned it today to someone at KBR in HBouston on the CAC recovery team or so she says.
Big mistake as I wanted to go to work for another contractor.
Ms Sparky’s Response:
At least try to get an email receipt!
It would be great if the DoD would provide a resource for former contractor personnel to contact and verify that all of the out processing, including the status of their CAC cards are in order. Even better, provide contact information and an avenue for dispute if irregularities are found.
Ms Sparky’s Response:
Don’t go gettin’ all crazy on us now!! That kinda makes sense. The DoD is not about making sense! At least that’s the way they act.
I just wrote to the CAC group and asked for info, I may try to get to the baselegal office tomorrow and see if I can get the deal on this and who owns it and is responsible for the CAC.
Give me a little time though, you know how hard it is to get information at times
Ms Sparky’s Response:
That would be awesome!
OK, no word so far from the web site but have talked with the Legal Office and they sent me next door to the GCAC office (Who knew an office with CAC in the acronym would have anything to do with CAC ID?) and,,,,they do not know.
I explained the situation and they were a little surprised by it. I think they were under the impression that a system had been set up long ago and was working fine but, they are making calls and will contact me when they have a definitive answer so please hang in there a little while longer and let them find what we need. It may take another day or more but I hope we will soon have a true answer to this question and if KBR had nothing to hide would there not be a statement posted in BIAP stating what was to be done with the cards and where?
As soon as I can get some information I will pass it on, just hang in there a little more folks and proper procedures will be found and made known to all
Ms Sparky’s Response:
You are a “most awesome-ist” contributor!
Damn, I make your skin crawl and you make me blush, fair trade me thinks.
Went to the GCAC office and spoke with a GSgt up there and this is the latest on the CAC issue.
KBR are allowed to collect the cards but, there should be a chain of custody form filled out so they can ensure it was handed over. They are supposed to bring it to the badging office where they are all destroyed, if they make it that far.
I would insist in a chain of cusody form such as the one we sign for our radios, kevlar and tools in case it is reported lost later and they claim we never handed it in. If they refuse, ask for a member of the badging office or PMO to take reciept of them or simply take out your camera and start video taping yourself handing the card over and make sure to state the time and date for the record.
I am sure these options will cause concern for KBR and hopefully they will start treating this very important piece of security as importantly as they treat our vests which we have to sign for in triplicate and make sure we NEVER lose that damn pink copy or we are in trouble.
The only other option I can think of right now is to refuse to hand over the CAC and get the usual threat of blacklisting and such from them but then you can go to the badging office yourself and hand it in there, they may not give a reciept either but at least you will know that it is in the right hands and not accidentally lost as a way to make sure you do not get to come back in country again.
Ms Sparky’s Response:
You mean to tell me I can still make a grown man blush….right on!!
If that CAC card is so important that they are auditing over it and calling people months later to try to get them, then it’s important enough to sign a receipt for.
By the way LaBoa is not in his latter 70′s. I will not comment on your other comments on LaBoa or nor towards KBR. But maybe you need to get your facts straight instead of relying on rumors. Isn’t that normally how people end up stirring the pot (as someone had put it).
Ms Sparky’s Response:
First of all I didn’t comment on Guy LaBoa’s age. But I will clarify that. His date of birth is 12/09/1939. http://files.usgwarchives.net/tx/harris/vitals/births/1939/harb0939.txt
As far as the other comments about LaBoa, those are the personal experiences of my readers. As far as KBR, my readers make their own comments and I will stand by mine.
The view of KBR is much different when you are at the bottom looking up. Than in Guy’s office looking down.
Sounds like an ass kisser to me, Ms Sparky.
Hehe, you flatter me so and hard to see the blush under all this sunburn.
I believe the CAC is FAR more important than a Kevlar jacket and helmet yet we have to sign accountability forms for them every 3 months or so, have not EVER had to do anything for the CAC other than show it to eat, buy things or get back on base but as far as KBR care, they do nothing to ensure we still have it in the holders on our arms as long as they see something of color there from a distance
Ms Sparky’s Response:
That’s because the helmet and kevlar have a GP# that KBR is accountable for or supposed to be. The CAC is by far more important as far as I am concerned. It’s your permission to be in Iraq.
There is a lot to say about LaBoa, and in time I will let you all know. But the first and foremost part is “What part of RETIRED General” does he not understand? Usually when you retire it is because you have done your best or screwed up so bad they do it for you, I think he was the latter. He is a nobody that never should have been in the postion he was in and is back in now. Where I come from we call these people astronauts because they do nothing but take up space. He put a lot of men’s life in danger at D11 “Hammer” by thinking these hands were green suiters and he could order them around. when the guys arrived there the Air Force was pushing 12′ high burms for force protection, the camp was about 10% to 15% done. It was wide open as far as you could see and with no patrols. While doing site prep. the guys uncovered a lot of UXO’s (unexploded ordinance) left by the Iraqi’s. The ground was supposed to be cleared before the guys got there. And then there was “Mr. Piggy”, Bruce Chirinko, another worthless piece of human flesh, and a LOT of it.
To Be Continued,
KOTA
Ms Sparky’s Response:
I will be waiting with much anticipation!!
KOTA said,on July 7th, 2009 at 9:34 am
While doing site prep. the guys uncovered a lot of UXO’s (unexploded ordinance) left by the Iraqi’s. The ground was supposed to be cleared before the guys got there.
KOTA are you serious? The area wasn’t completely cleared of explosive devices? Was there are an ACL or NTP authorizing this work? Did anyone notify the ethics hotline or try to stop the work as instructed during employee orientation, in Houston?
Why can’t we have stipulations that retired military cannot work for military contractors for at least 5 years after they leave the service? Nothing against the military and they have to have jobs but why not not have the DOD review their activties before leaving and make sure they were not too nice to their prospectve employers.